791_Courtney Swan
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[00:00:00] JJ Virgin: Hey, I am JJ Virgin, PhD Dropout. Sorry, mom. Turn four time New York Times bestselling author As a certified nutrition specialist, fitness Hall of Famer and globally recognized leader in health. I’m driven to keep asking the tough questions and use my podcast to simplify the science of health into actionable strategies that help you thrive.

[00:00:27] JJ Virgin: I’d also love to hear your thoughts on the show. And here’s the fun part, when you send me your review, I’ll reply to you using my on Demand Virtual me. That’s right. My team and I created a virtual JJ packed with my book Speeches and Wisdom so I can personally connect with you. Here’s how you do it.

[00:00:45] JJ Virgin: Subscribe and leave an honest review of the podcast. Take a screenshot of your review, text it to 8 1 3. 5 6 5 2 6 2 7. That’s 8 1 3 5 6 5 2 6 2 7. My virtual JJ will reply directly and trust me this will make your day. So subscribe now@subscribetojj.com and text me your review. Let’s keep thriving together.

[00:01:20] JJ Virgin: Over a decade ago, I saw how what you’re eating. Can have a profound effect on not just your weight, your inflammation, your mood, all of the things. And at the time I was really looking at seven specific foods. This was the virgin diet, gluten, dairy, eggs, corn, soy, peanuts, and sugar and artificial sweeteners.

[00:01:40] JJ Virgin: The thing I didn’t realize back then is when I pulled those out, what I was effectively doing in someone’s diet was pulling out ultra processed foods, pulling out glyphosates, pulling a lot of the things that are obesogens that can create a lot of disruption. And we’re gonna be digging into that today.

[00:01:58] JJ Virgin: We’re gonna be talking about what’s going on with our food, how different our food is in terms of what they allow into our food supply versus in Europe, uh, more importantly as we dig into this and the impact it can have on your health. We’re gonna share how you can shift things and how you can, even with all of this craziness going on, navigate the grocery store, make changes that are not overwhelming, that can have a profound impact on your health and your family’s health.

[00:02:29] JJ Virgin: And I’ve got the perfect person to do this. I started following her a while ago and I was like, I must get her on my podcast. And this is Courtney Swan. She is an integrative nutritionist, her Master’s of Science in Nutrition, but more than that where she is really blowing up as as a food activist. And she has been working at this now for 14 years to fix America’s broken food system.

[00:02:54] JJ Virgin: And now she is in the like middle of the whole Make America Healthy again movement, which I am thrilled is going on. We’ll be talking about that as well. She’s the host of the Popular Health and Wellness podcast, real Food Ology, where she challenges misconceptions around nutrition, our food sources, sustainability, food policy, healthy living and more.

[00:03:18] JJ Virgin: And she is just driven to dispel outdated nutritionists that keep people stuck in unhealthy habits. And again, she’s got her Master’s of Science in Nutrition and Integrative Health from Maryland University of Integrative Health, and we will be digging into. Everything around glyphosates, uh, generally regarded as safe foods, what things you really need to be looking out for in your food supply and what you can do.

[00:03:45] JJ Virgin: And she’s put together A-P-D-F-A food guide that will help you navigate the grocery store. I’ll make it simple for you. I’m gonna put all of that at jj virgin.com/swan, jj virgin.com/swan and I will be right back with Courtney. Stay with me.

[00:04:16] JJ Virgin: Courtney Swan, welcome to Well Beyond 40.

[00:04:18] Courtney Swan: Thank you so much for having me, jj. I’m so excited to

[00:04:20] JJ Virgin: be here. Well, I have been listening to a bunch of your stuff, and first of all, uh, I think you’re one of my sheroes. I just wanna like, celebrate you for being out here. You’ve been at this now for 10 years? 15.

[00:04:37] JJ Virgin: How long?

[00:04:38] Courtney Swan: It’s, it’s been 14 years, if you count. When I started real ology, but at the time it was just, you know, it started as just a blog and it was just something that I did for fun.

[00:04:46] JJ Virgin: Yeah. Now you’re at the forefront of all of this stuff, which I will tell you, it still blows me away that make America healthy again.

[00:04:55] JJ Virgin: Is political, like why is making America healthy again? Political, it’s still, it’s just dumbfounding to me that this would be an issue, but then a lot of things are dumbfounding to me. I agree. So we could go down that rabbit hole. It’s really sad.

[00:05:10] Courtney Swan: Yeah, it’s really sad. It’s an unfortunate, because I wish, I’m begging people to just see the greater picture here, to zoom out that a lot of what’s happening right now is for the greater good of Americans and my message has stayed the same.

[00:05:21] Courtney Swan: This is what I keep telling people. Anybody that comes at me and tries to say, oh, you know, you’re just a right Republican. Actually I, I’ve been a Democrat my entire life. And then Mahaw came around and I was like, okay, we’re doing this. This has been my message for 14 years and now I finally have a platform and an opportunity to make real change to actually drive policy changes.

[00:05:38] Courtney Swan: And of course, why wouldn’t I wanna be a part of that?

[00:05:41] JJ Virgin: Yeah. And yet when you, I, I spend a lot of time over the last couple years, I think as soon as we could travel again internationally, I’m like, I’m out. You know, and I’ve been all over the world and it, it is never more obvious how screwed up our food supply is than when you leave the country.

[00:05:59] JJ Virgin: And you go, wow, I’m able to eat everything. I possibly like, anything I want over here, and I feel great. And yet at home I’m eating totally clean, healthy, and I never quite feel awesome. And what the heck is going on? And yet we need policies. For it. So 14 years ago, how did you get interested in all of this?

[00:06:20] Courtney Swan: Yeah, so I, it actually starts back to childhood. So when I was growing up, my mom was what we would call a seventies granola, crunchy hippie, you know, all the names that we put on them back in the day. Um, where did you grow up? I actually grew up in San Antonio, but my, before I was born, my mom lived in Boulder for a long time.

[00:06:36] Courtney Swan: Oh, okay. That fits exactly. Which was the mecca for all of it. Right. And then my dad moved her to San Antonio when they got married. And so I grew up in a household where my mom was baking bread from scratch. She was making pasta from scratch. Like she was just doing everything from scratch. She was buying organic before it was a thing.

[00:06:52] Courtney Swan: I was getting the, you know, the off-brand natural cereals back in the day while my friends were getting Frosted Flakes and Fruit Loops and all that. So at the time I didn’t realize how amazing that was, and I really didn’t have, I was

[00:07:02] JJ Virgin: gonna say, did you want Pop-Tarts and you were mad, or,

[00:07:05] Courtney Swan: yeah. Oh, I was very mad.

[00:07:06] Courtney Swan: I had a best friend who was getting Burger King for dinner every night, and I would basically fight my mom and every on it every night and say, I want Burger King. She loves to bring that up now ’cause she’s like, aren’t you happy that I didn’t let you eat that every night as a kid? And I am, I’m super grateful now knowing what I know now.

[00:07:20] Courtney Swan: Um, so not knowing how good and amazing I had it. Then I go to college and I find myself eating at, you know, the school cafeteria and it’s, you know, Cisco catering or whatever it is that they’re using. And I’m doing the fourth meal at Taco Bell and I’m, I’m just eating all this stuff that I didn’t eat when I was in high school.

[00:07:35] Courtney Swan: ’cause I largely ate all my meals at home and I gained weight. I became lethargic. I just started making connections with, oh my God, what I’m eating and putting in my body is actually making me feel really terrible. And it’s, I’m having all these horrible negative effects that I had just never experienced before.

[00:07:51] Courtney Swan: And I found a book called You Are What You Eat. And it’s what really just, it’s what I consider to be my light bulb of like aha moment where it just really connected. For me, something very simple that we should be teaching people in school and we don’t, is the connection between what you’re putting in your body and how it fuels you and how it quite literally feeds your cells and builds your entire body.

[00:08:09] Courtney Swan: And so from there, I just got really fascinated by nutrition and the study of the body and health, and I dug into every book I could. I found Mark Hyman, I found Michael Pollen. I found all these amazing thought leaders back then, and it made me so inspired that I had decided to go back to school. And I got my Master’s of science and nutrition, and then I started real ology.

[00:08:29] Courtney Swan: And like I’d mentioned at the very beginning, it was just a blog. In the beginning it was really just a hobby because I felt like I needed an outlet. It was like I needed an outlet just to get all this information out that I was learning about, that I largely felt like the American people didn’t know.

[00:08:41] Courtney Swan: And I was, as I was diving deeper and deeper into it, I started realizing all the corruption that was happening in our food industry. And I just felt so, um, emboldened to share about it and just let the American people know what was happening.

[00:08:52] JJ Virgin: Yeah, I remember, um. I guess this was around 2007. I was, I was on the Dr.

[00:08:59] JJ Virgin: Phil show as their nutrition expert, and they decided to take over a town in Texas, Elgin, Texas, or Elgin, Texas. Anyway, out, way out there in Texas. And uh, and I remember driving in, in the only hotel in town was a Holiday Inn Express. And literally like you walked out to go to the pool at night and was covered with like beetles and stuff.

[00:09:22] JJ Virgin: Oh yeah. And the nicest, like, to go out to the restaurant was Subway. I mean, this was like where we were. Right. And so we’re taking over this high school and they’re gonna put in healthy food and come to find out you can’t just do that because of the food con. Like, like that was my first glimpse of, oh.

[00:09:42] JJ Virgin: This is a way bigger problem than we realize. You can’t just say, Hey, let’s have some healthy food. ’cause all these food contracts are there and they’re gonna keep the food in there and, and guess what? Those french fries are gonna stay as the potato and or as the vegetable of choice. And you’re not gonna be able to shift it.

[00:09:56] JJ Virgin: And I think people don’t realize that this is like, the roots of this are so deep. And you know, if we started to look at this whole thing, we took the food industry and we said, okay, you have to be totally transparent as to what’s really going on. What do you think would be the most shocking thing for consumers to find out about it?

[00:10:17] Courtney Swan: Um, I think the most shocking one is also the most simple to grasp and once you get it, you really start to understand is that just because something is on the shelf does not mean that it’s safe or that it’s really been vetted for. Unfortunately, we do not have, uh, we actually, we do now, and I can go into that, but largely we’ve had an F-D-A-A-U-S-D-A that have been asleep at the wheel, uh, last fall.

[00:10:38] Courtney Swan: People can actually go and look this up and watch it on YouTube. Bernie Sanders had a hearing with the FDA Commissioner of the time, it was before our new one, Marty McCarey, and he admitted to Bernie Sanders that they’re behind the times. He said we’re about 10 years behind the research that the UK is behind.

[00:10:52] Courtney Swan: He was specifically talking about food dies when it comes to that, but he said, look, we don’t have the manpower, we don’t have the funds and the ability to be able to, uh, vet all the stuff that we have in our food supply. And that’s because we’ve allowed through under the grass. Which is generally recognized as safe.

[00:11:10] Courtney Swan: We have allowed about 10,000 additives into our food supply. And now you look at that, alternatively, in the eu, they allow around 300 to 400 additives depending on what country you’re looking at. Three to 400 versus 10,000 is a large leap. It’s crazy. Yeah. And so I just think that just because it’s on the shelf, people think, oh, well, you know, our government wouldn’t allow that to be sold if it was actually harmful for us.

[00:11:31] Courtney Swan: And unfortunately, we are at a time where we’re realizing that a lot of our food is harmful and that it should never have been there in the first place.

[00:11:37] JJ Virgin: I mean, why wouldn’t we just follow the eus lead if we don’t have the manpower and just do that? I agree. I agree. For simple, you know, and then you look at it and you go, it’s actually that three thou 300 to 10,000.

[00:11:52] JJ Virgin: Okay. That’s frightening. But the other frightening part of that is, is something I was studying back when I used to, I used to teach this course called Overcoming Weight Loss Resistance, and one of the areas that could cause people to gain weight and become diabetic was obviously a. Toxic overload. And one of the scariest things is, especially when you look at these like generally regarded as safe, is they’ll pull one ingredient out and test that, but they don’t test that ingredient plus this ingredient plus that ingredient.

[00:12:20] JJ Virgin: And then what happens when these accumulate. Exactly. And so you look at it and go, okay, there’s 9,700 ingredients that, that they don’t have in Europe that now are all that you’re eating a bunch of them at once. Who knows what the heck is happening.

[00:12:37] Courtney Swan: And you brought up a great point. Sorry, you brought up a great point.

[00:12:39] Courtney Swan: The compounding effect that I think so many people don’t understand and they don’t think about it because you’re right, we haven’t done any tests on what all of those do and how they accumulate on the body and then interact with each other. And it’s quite frightening actually when you think about it.

[00:12:53] JJ Virgin: Yeah, I remember hearing that. You know, ’cause everyone was talking about die obesity. Um, mark. Hyman brought it. Yes. You know, coined that term. I think, and I remember reading in the NHANES study that it’s not obesity that’s driving diabetes. That actually what is happening is it’s the toxic burden that’s being stored in the fat cells.

[00:13:14] JJ Virgin: And it was only that if the toxic burden was high enough that it would cause the endocrine disruption to create diabetes, which is a huge, huge thing that’s really not talked about.

[00:13:25] Courtney Swan: I, I agree. Yeah. And I think he also turned, or he also coined that term, uh, obese obesogens obesogens, that’s what he was calling them.

[00:13:34] Courtney Swan: Um, where those are those endocrine disruptors that are causing that overload on the endocrine disruptor or on the endocrine system. And these obesogens can be, you know, anywhere from toxic preservatives that are in our food, but they can also be, you know, phalates and plastic or, uh, BPS or. Uh, PFASs that are otherwise known as phthalates, that are plastic.

[00:13:54] Courtney Swan: Like there’s so many other things in our environment that could also be driving that obesity and the diabetes.

[00:14:00] JJ Virgin: Let’s go through some of them. Okay. And here’s the thing. We’re gonna talk about some of the challenges and we’re gonna talk about solutions. So if you’re listening going, this is not just like a, oh my gosh, yeah.

[00:14:10] JJ Virgin: There’s actually solutions. So solutions are coming. But I think it’s important to know some of the, the basics. ’cause one of the challenges I have is, okay, so, you know, again, spending time in Europe, you don’t see people walking around eating ultra processed food as they’re walking across the street. You know, they actually sit down and eat real meals.

[00:14:28] JJ Virgin: We, I think it was in, in, uh, Spain, they were saying we eat like 20 to 30% of the food is, is ultra processed contrast to 60 to 70% in the United States. I think it’s unrealistic to say, Hey, you’re not gonna eat any processed food. I do think there’s a difference between these ultra processed, what I’d call dirty processed and some clean processed, like, you know, some vacuum packed lentils or something.

[00:14:52] JJ Virgin: Yeah. But what are some of the things that we should be absolutely looking for? Like some disturbing ingredients that could be hiding in like just some of the everyday things we might be buying.

[00:15:03] Courtney Swan: Yeah. So I would say the biggest offenders for me are these artificial preservatives, uh, and stabilizers and thickeners that we see because we don’t actually need any of these.

[00:15:13] Courtney Swan: A lot of these are simply there. Not a lot. All of them are simply there for the food companies to make profit. They want these products to be able to sit on the shelves for long periods of time, and they want them to look perfect and pristine every single time. So you have these stabilizers that, um, and emulsifiers where if you have, you know, fat and um, water or something in there and it will separate, they don’t want that to separate.

[00:15:35] Courtney Swan: So then they’ll put it in. So stabilize it or emulsify it so that it looks just like pristine and beautiful, which to me is kind of crazy. How have we gotten to this place where we just want everything to look exactly the same, pristine and perfect? ’cause that’s not how foods right exist in nature. It’s crazy.

[00:15:51] Courtney Swan: Um, so that’s a really big one for me. So those will look like, um. BHT is a preservative that they use. Um, a stabilizer or an emulsifier would be monoglycerides. Um, I’m trying to think of some other examples. I could look some more up. I’m forgetting some of the names of the other ones, but usually it will say in parentheses, emulsifier, preservative, stabilizer, any of those.

[00:16:13] Courtney Swan: I always make sure I put that back on the shelf. Another really big one is artificial colors, which is one that we are largely getting rid of in the next couple years in our food system. Um, but you know, that looks like red number 40, yellow, number five, blue number six, things like that. They don’t serve any sort of nutritional purpose whatsoever.

[00:16:30] Courtney Swan: They’re just there for aesthetics, just to make it look bright and again. Perfect. Beautiful. But why do we need to be dying? All of our stuff. And what’s crazy to me is that we’re finding food dyes in salad dressings, pickles. Um, they’re in marshmallows. Like, why are we dying marshmallows? Wouldn’t they just be white?

[00:16:46] Courtney Swan: When I make marshmallows at home, they’re already white. You make marshmallows. I, I do. I have, how do you make a

[00:16:52] JJ Virgin: marshmallow? You

[00:16:53] Courtney Swan: get gelatin and, um, vanilla and sugar, and then you just whip it until it becomes this kind of like gelatin, like texture. Wow. It’s amazing and it’s really good. And they’re super good for your skin.

[00:17:04] JJ Virgin: Really? Yeah. I wonder, gelatin, I wonder if you could make it with allulose instead. Oh, I bet you could.

[00:17:09] Courtney Swan: Yeah. I’ve never tried it, but I’m sure that you could.

[00:17:11] JJ Virgin: That would be incredible.

[00:17:12] Courtney Swan: I know that’s a good

[00:17:13] JJ Virgin: idea.

[00:17:14] Courtney Swan: Yeah. Wow.

[00:17:15] JJ Virgin: I was at, um, total aside, uh, we were at, uh, down in Miami last week and we went to Layla Sinner’s house for dinner, and she had her chef made this dessert with cottage cheese, almond flour, monk fruit.

[00:17:30] JJ Virgin: I switched it over to RX Sugar and then apples, and I’m like, oh my, it tasted like tiramisu, and now I’ve been on this like obsessive tiramisu cottage cheese trend. I’m like, I’m like, Tim’s like, okay, stop it, but like marshmallow. I never would think of making a marshmallow. That’s, that’s pretty amazing.

[00:17:48] JJ Virgin: Yeah,

[00:17:48] Courtney Swan: and you can look the recipe on up online. I mean, there’s a little bit of a learning curve with making ’em, because if you mix ’em too fast too quickly, then it does this weird kind of. Like texture thing, but you can usually get it after two goes. Huh?

[00:17:59] JJ Virgin: And then it’s okay. What do you do with those marshmallows?

[00:18:01] Courtney Swan: You, I mean, I put ’em in like my coffee in the morning sometimes, or I’ll just eat them as like a little snack. ’cause I do them like super low sugar and I don’t do ’em all the time, but like, if I feel inclined to make them, like during the winter is usually when I find myself wanting to make them. Um, I’ve used them to make like Rice Krispy treats before, like once or twice.

[00:18:17] Courtney Swan: I don’t really eat those very often, but, um, they’re just kind of like a fun little dessert. You can have ’em with berries and have ’em as a dessert. Wow.

[00:18:23] JJ Virgin: Yeah. Have fun. Yeah. Gotta try the RX sugar part. Okay. Yeah, that’s a good

[00:18:27] Courtney Swan: idea.

[00:18:29] JJ Virgin: I know. Anything I can do, like I switch over to Allulose, I’m, I’m on it. Um, what about like food label claims?

[00:18:36] JJ Virgin: What, because I’m always amazed, you know, they’ll put natural, they do all these things. They’ll put like green and grains and make it look like, you know, it’s, it’s, uh, all this healthy stuff when it’s not. What, what are some of the things that are just like manipulative outright law lies? Like how can we go into code in the grocery store?

[00:18:54] JJ Virgin: What’s really going on?

[00:18:56] Courtney Swan: Yeah, so we call that greenwashing and what’s happening there is these brands, I think people don’t fully grasp the fact that the front of the package is just a billboard. It’s really just an advertisement for the company. And what I have found is that the more words that they have on the front, generally, the more they’re lying in the back.

[00:19:12] Courtney Swan: So it’ll be, you know, natural, low fat, low sugar, da da da, da, you know, all these different things to me. Majority of the time, those are all red flags because usually you’ll turn it around and you’ll see, you know, inflammatory oils in there. You’ll see canola oil, you’ll see some of these stabilizers, emulsifiers.

[00:19:27] Courtney Swan: It’s so crazy to me, like I’ll see on a package sometimes it’ll say no artificial ingredients, and then I’ll turn it around and it’ll have, it’ll still have like preservatives in there. And for some reason they’re not, they’re not tagging that as an artificial ingredient. And I, I really, I wouldn’t be

[00:19:39] JJ Virgin: away with that.

[00:19:40] Courtney Swan: I, I don’t understand. I think it’s because there’s not a ton of regulation that’s happening for the front of the packages. There’s a few words that they regulate, like USDA organic, for example, that is. Federally regulated. If you were to put F or USDA organic on your package and it wasn’t actually organic, like you could have jail time or have really big fines for that, but a lot of these words are just not actually regulated.

[00:20:01] Courtney Swan: So like natural for example, right? Any company could just write natural in the front and then they can put whatever ingredients they want in the back. So I always remind people that no matter what, you always, always, always wanna read the ingredients. I don’t care how good it looks on the front. I don’t care if there’s rolling green pastures and chickens on the front.

[00:20:18] Courtney Swan: I mean, I, I’ve seen the craziest stuff. And then you’ll turn around and you’ll read the ingredients and. My jaw’s on the floor half the time. ’cause I’m like, what there, this is rolling pastures with chickens on the front and like how does this have, you know, fake meat and canola oil in it. So I just always tell people, read the ingredients and my, my easiest hack for, uh, ’cause I’m similar to you, I’m a realist and I don’t think that there’s a world in which we’re never gonna be eating anything out of a package.

[00:20:40] Courtney Swan: I mean, we’re busy. I need convenient food sometimes. So what I look for is just if you could technically, so if you’re reading those ingredients and if you could technically buy all those ingredients in the grocery store so you recognize all of them and you’re like, oh, I know where almond flour is. I know where Allulose is in the grocery store.

[00:20:57] Courtney Swan: I know where Rosemary, whatever it is in there. If you know where you could buy all those ingredients and you could technically make it at home if you wanted to, then that would be something where I would say that would be fair game to buy. Where we get into issues is. Cheez-Its for example, or um, fruit Loops.

[00:21:11] Courtney Swan: They have something called BHT in there, which is a preservative that I’m very concerned about. ’cause there’s concerning links to colon cancer, you would look at that and go, I literally have no idea where I would buy BHT. Where is BHT sitting in the grocery store? It’s not ’cause they get it, you know, from a factory.

[00:21:24] Courtney Swan: So that would be an example of something that I would say, put it back on the shelf and find an alternative that’s similar to Cheez-Its, that doesn’t have all those nasty ingredients in it.

[00:21:33] JJ Virgin: What are some of the other like worst offender ingredients, especially for things like, you know, this audience is per and postmenopausal, so things that would cause like weight gain, inflammation, any of that.

[00:21:49] Courtney Swan: Yeah, so I think gums are really tricky. One, I’m not inherently against them all the time. There’s a couple things that I will buy that has, for example, xantham gum in there. But I really, especially for women, if they’re dealing with bloating and a lot of gastric upset, I always tell people, cut the gums out and you’ll probably see a big difference.

[00:22:05] Courtney Swan: And that’ll look like gel and gum, xantham gum. And you’ll see them in a lot of places. Um, they’re anywhere from non-dairy milks, they’ll be in salad dressings, they’ll be in soups. Sometimes they’ll be in, you know, like I find ’em in tortillas sometimes, and I don’t think I. According to the research in very small amounts.

[00:22:23] Courtney Swan: Things like xantham gum are okay, but if you’re eating them a lot and those can really add up quickly. Like if they’re in your tortillas and your non-dairy milk and then they’re in your salad dressing, like, you know, you just start adding up and then the compounding effect can happen. So those would be one that I would really look out for.

[00:22:37] Courtney Swan: Um, another one that leads to a lot of inflammation is these, um, you know, everybody’s talking about seed oils right now, but let me give some context about it. I know I was

[00:22:44] JJ Virgin: gonna ask the seed oil question. We did have Kate Shanahan on, so, yes,

[00:22:48] Courtney Swan: yes. The reason why they are so concerning is because we went from essentially not having them at all in our diet to around 20% of Americans calories are now coming from these seed oils and we’ve replaced 20%.

[00:23:01] Courtney Swan: 20%. It’s crazy. And we went, if you look at the graph, I mean about. I, I don’t know exactly when, but I think it was about in the seventies when they created canola oil. So if you look in just that small amount of period of time where we essentially switched all of these healthy fats and oils that we were using before for these seed oil.

[00:23:19] Courtney Swan: So seed oils will look like canola oil. Um, it’ll also look like vegetable oil, grape seed oil. Those are all canola oil, but they’ll be labeled differently on a package. There’s also cotton seed oil, corn oil, soy oil, uh, grape seed oil, and sunflower oil. Those are kinda the biggest defenders that you really want to avoid.

[00:23:38] Courtney Swan: Now here’s the thing, if you’re eating out, chances are most restaurants are probably cooking with canola oil or a mixture of maybe avocado, or, sorry, a mixture of olive oil and canola oil. Again, I’m a realist. I, I, I believe in community and being with your friends and going out to eat. So there are some times where you’re probably gonna be exposed to them, and I’m not super worried about that.

[00:23:57] Courtney Swan: Where I’m really worried about it is 20% of your caloric intake coming in, in, with these seed oils. So control the controllables. Don’t buy them at home. If a breast calls for canola oil, replace it with butter or replace it with avocado oil. Um, I love olive oil. I love coconut oil for baking. Um, beef tallow, we strictly make our steaks here in beef tallow.

[00:24:19] Courtney Swan: Yeah, and this is largely what Americans were eating up until we replaced all these fats with canola oil. And

[00:24:23] JJ Virgin: there’s so much phobia around beef tallow. It’s crazy. I know. Crazy.

[00:24:27] Courtney Swan: And there’s beef tallow fries that are like my favorite thing in the entire world. Oh my gosh. We literally just had them yesterday at this restaurant here in Boulder and they were amazing.

[00:24:34] Courtney Swan: They’re so good. Um, so yeah. And, and let me give a little bit more context too, because there is, there’s just, there’s some nuance there with the seed oils and why they’re so inflammatory. So this is very basic nutrition stuff. So what we learned in school is that you want your omega sixes and omega threes in a ratio and you want them in, in a four to one ratio.

[00:24:52] Courtney Swan: And what’s happening right now with these seed oils is that Americans are consuming anywhere between 15 to one, to 20 to one in a ratio. And when that ratio is so skewed off, what happens is that it causes inflammation in the body. So are they inherently the worst thing ever and they’re poison? I don’t believe that if they’re coming from sources, maybe like sunflower oil, but it’s more about this offsetting of the inflammation.

[00:25:13] Courtney Swan: And then, not to mention a lot of it is in the processing. Like personally, I will not touch canola oil. I don’t think it’s like a real oil. If you look at the rape seed oil is genetically modified seed that it comes from the first place and then if you watch on YouTube and how they make it, it’s like a 12 step process and apparently it’s so rancid smelling that they have to deodorize it and bleach it in order to even make it palatable.

[00:25:36] Courtney Swan: So to me, I just, I see that and I’m, this is an industrial oil. Like I wouldn’t wanna eat this or buy it or consume it. So that’s why you wanna be avoiding things like that.

[00:25:45] JJ Virgin: What about, you know, I just recently, uh, was super excited about a protein bar because of the grams of protein in it didn’t assumed.

[00:25:54] JJ Virgin: And I know what they say about assumed, but I did, I assumed that because of who was selling it, that it must be clean, didn’t really scrutinize it. Got it. And went, oh my gosh, sucralose,

[00:26:05] Courtney Swan: was it the David Bar?

[00:26:07] JJ Virgin: I wasn’t gonna say any names

[00:26:09] Courtney Swan: because I had the exact same experience with that particular bar.

[00:26:13] Courtney Swan: Okay.

[00:26:13] JJ Virgin: You made that boo boo too, because I was like, okay, hold on. It’s like, it’s Peter Attia, it’s Andrew Huberman, it’s Andy Galpin. It’s like, are you kidding me? Or, or Lane Norton. Like, well, I know Lane likes artificial sweetheart.

[00:26:26] Courtney Swan: He loves them. Yeah,

[00:26:28] JJ Virgin: and I, and I keep going.

[00:26:32] Courtney Swan: I was bummed about that one because a lot of people that I respect in the health and wellness world really pushed those bars.

[00:26:37] Courtney Swan: I heard from somebody that they, they did a little swaperoo and it used to be a different. I think it might’ve been Monk fruit before, but I can’t 100% confirm that you can’t get

[00:26:46] JJ Virgin: it to 30 grams. So I have a 20 gram protein protein bar. I’m reformulating everything right now. Protein bars are the hardest thing to make.

[00:26:52] JJ Virgin: I can imagine. To not get moldy to like, they’re just, it’s so difficult. And then to have clean ingredients, and then you’re competing against these bars that are a dollar that have a bunch of garbage in them. Yeah. So I was like, oh, I’m so appreciative. They’re putting this together. This will solve the problem.

[00:27:07] JJ Virgin: But it, I then went to my, um, manufacturer. He goes, you cannot possibly do this without artificial sweeteners to get that level of protein.

[00:27:15] Courtney Swan: Really? Yeah. Is it a taste thing? Why is that?

[00:27:19] JJ Virgin: I don’t know. I don’t know.

[00:27:21] Courtney Swan: Maybe it’s to keep the calories into a certain place and the protein It’s, yeah, it was

[00:27:25] JJ Virgin: the protein to calorie ratio Yeah.

[00:27:28] JJ Virgin: That they were trying to hit, which they hit, they taste great. But then, and I was in, I was in complete, didn’t pay any attention until someone brought it up and I went, oh, I just never dawned on me that this could be in there.

[00:27:40] Courtney Swan: I know and let me share with your listeners why sucralose is so concerning to me.

[00:27:44] Courtney Swan: So Sucralose is also known as Splenda and there was a study that came out a couple years ago finding that is a genot toin. A genot toin means that it damages our DNA. So that’s why personally I avoid things like that. I avoid aspartame, I won’t touch, um, uh, what’s the other one? Aspartame, fa Um, why am I’m totally broke profile Pheno all

[00:28:03] JJ Virgin: or something.

[00:28:04] JJ Virgin: Oh, it’s a KAA old fame. K yeah. Yes. A K. What else is there

[00:28:10] Courtney Swan: sucralose? There is that phenol something, but I don’t remember how to pronounce it when or what it is, but

[00:28:15] JJ Virgin: I mean, basically artificial sweeteners. I think we can just blanket say it just, and, and what really doesn’t make sense to me with the artificial sweeteners is we have amazing.

[00:28:25] JJ Virgin: Alternatives. I know, and especially when you look at Allulose, that actually is therapeutic and helps you like Yes. You know, like why would you do it?

[00:28:34] Courtney Swan: And for the gum it drives me nuts. All these gums have either the ACE K or super low, or sorry, they have Ace K or aspartame is the ones they use. Xylitol is actually amazing for your teeth.

[00:28:44] Courtney Swan: Teeth, so I don’t know why they won’t just use xylitol. I love xylitol. But yeah, it’s, it’s maddening.

[00:28:49] JJ Virgin: Yeah. I, although we, we manufactured years ago, a xylitol, brain gummy xylitol in small amounts is amazing. Eat too many of those brain gummies. I was like, oh my gosh, this is the stinkiest room of, of practitioners.

[00:29:04] JJ Virgin: Because it was like, I was like, okay, everybody stop eating these so they can, they can be pretty, pretty, uh, disruptive. It’s really funny. So, so someone listening to this, okay, now they’re gonna go grocery shopping, and I know you’re gonna give everyone your grocery PDF, but I think I’d love to switch into some solutions.

[00:29:23] JJ Virgin: I do wanna make sure we, uh, talk, talk about what’s happening in the Maha movement too. But someone, let’s just take someone, all right, now they’re going to the grocery store. If they were gonna make one. Big shift in their cart. What’s like the big ones that they could do?

[00:29:37] Courtney Swan: Um, really one, maybe three.

[00:29:39] JJ Virgin: Let’s give ’em three things they could change in their cart.

[00:29:42] Courtney Swan: Okay. Well, first of all, I would see how little amount of packages, so I actually play, I, I play a little bit of a game with myself now to see how min, how. How much real food I can get in my cart without not putting a ton of packaged goods, you know? And so actually when I’m grocery shopping, the majority of my cart looks like fruits, vegetables, steaks, maybe some chicken.

[00:30:04] Courtney Swan: Uh, let’s see, what else? And I’ll maybe have like a bag of chips or like a bag of tortillas or something, depending on what I’m making that week. So I would challenge people to get in the kitchen and cook more, you know, and hopefully a lot of your listeners do that already, but you know, if it seems like daunting or that you’re gonna mess it up or that you’re not a great cook, what I remind people is we also live in this really amazing time of information, and all you have to do is go on YouTube or on Instagram.

[00:30:29] Courtney Swan: All my favorite creators make these amazing recipes, and they’re like. 20 minute recipes. It’s not like you’re gonna be in there doing a whole Martha Stewart, you know? Right. Four course meal. Like they can be really simple stuff. Um, and then I would say the packages that you’re buying, like I said earlier and, and you had mentioned this too, buy the clean processed packages.

[00:30:45] Courtney Swan: Like make sure that these packages really are just simple, whole real food ingredients that you actually recognize. Because largely the issue that we’re dealing with and why we’re having so many, so many health issues is that people are largely just not eating food anymore. We’re eating everything from packages.

[00:31:00] Courtney Swan: Everything is coming from a box and a bag and from plastic, and a lot of them have all these additives and everything in there that we, we shouldn’t be consuming anyways. So I would just say, um, challenge ’em to buy more whole real foods, cut out those additives that we’ve got already gone over, and, um, challenge yourself maybe to cook a little bit more at home.

[00:31:20] JJ Virgin: We cook at when we’re home. ’cause we travel half the time. We cook every single night and we have got it down. Like Tim’s in charge of protein. Yes, I’m in charge of vegetables. And it’s like we, this is an under 30 minutes situation and mine’s usually in about 10 to 15. It’s like we’ve got it down. Yes.

[00:31:37] Courtney Swan: And then we just

[00:31:38] JJ Virgin: make extra so that we end up have lunch the next day.

[00:31:41] Courtney Swan: That’s amazing. That’s usually what we do in my house too. Hector’s always on the stakes.

[00:31:46] JJ Virgin: I love it. Yeah, the guys get the grill. I’m like, I got nothing over there. But he’s also become like the master air fryer too.

[00:31:53] Courtney Swan: Oh yeah. The air fryer is great. That’s also a great tool if people have access to that. But be careful.

[00:31:57] Courtney Swan: Don’t get the Teflon coated ones. I have one from our place that’s a non-toxic one, and it’s amazing.

[00:32:02] JJ Virgin: Yes, yes. That’s, uh, that was our first thing is we didn’t know, we did not know about our place to start, which I think is what a great resource that is. Yeah,

[00:32:10] Courtney Swan: it really

[00:32:11] JJ Virgin: is.

[00:32:11] Courtney Swan: But yeah, and I just wanna say one more thing too.

[00:32:13] Courtney Swan: I think, you know, in this country we’ve really over complicated it. We’ve made it, we’ve made it really confusing. We’ve made it hard to navigate all this. But, you know, ask yourself just really simple questions like, what have our ancestors thrived on for millions of years before we had, you know, all these studies and the scientific research and, and look, I’m not saying that I don’t believe in science.

[00:32:32] Courtney Swan: I think the studies and the research is amazing, but we’ve also gotten a place where we’ve inundated everybody so much with it that now everybody’s confused. Now everybody’s like, I don’t know what to eat. Are eggs good? Are eggs bad? Is red meat bad? Is it good? Just ask yourself, what did your ancestors eat?

[00:32:47] Courtney Swan: What did they largely thrive on Produce? So fruits and vegetables, um, maybe some grains. I personally don’t really eat a lot of grains, but if you feel good on rice and stuff like that, then you know, great. Um, meat butter. Eggs. Just really simple stuff and we don’t have to over complicate it. And, and anytime that you’re questioning and you’re confused, just think what have humans eaten since basically the dawn of time.

[00:33:09] Courtney Swan: And that’s really what

[00:33:09] JJ Virgin: I use. It’s the best, best way to look at this because honestly, we start to major in the minors and quite often I’ll see people so concerned about the lectins and I’m like, but you aren’t even getting enough. Protein in like, and you haven’t even eaten enough non-search vegetables and fiber and you’re worried about this thing over here.

[00:33:30] JJ Virgin: Right? I know. Like, let’s, let’s focus on the big rocks and if you focus on those big rocks, a lot of that stuff goes away. How long do you see, like someone making a shift, kind of now aware of how this has infiltrated their pantry and their freezer and they, they make the shift. How quickly do people start to notice feeling better and what types of things would they notice?

[00:33:53] Courtney Swan: Okay, so this is a great question. I actually got to witness this with my fiance when we moved in together. ’cause when we first met, he was what I would consider kind of the more he, he wasn’t like fully eating the standard American diet, but he was kind of the middle where it was like he thought he was eating really well.

[00:34:07] Courtney Swan: He was exercising all the time. He’s drinking his protein shakes, this and that. But he just didn’t fully understand, like he wasn’t looking out for, you know, all these ingredients and buying a lot of stuff in packages. And when we moved in together and I started cooking for him every night and he was just largely eating.

[00:34:21] Courtney Swan: You know, steaks and fruit and vegetables and just the, you know, the whole real foods that we’ve been talking about. I mean, I would say within like two weeks. But almost immediately what he started noticing is that he wasn’t that bloated after meals and he started feeling really good. Like he just started telling me all the time, I will never forget this.

[00:34:37] Courtney Swan: He would like run around the house and be like, God, I feel so good. Like whenever I didn’t know I could feel this good. And it was so cool to witness that because, you know, as someone like myself who started digging into this almost 20 years ago, like I forget kind of what it was like when I first started making my changes.

[00:34:53] Courtney Swan: And so to see that again through his eyes has been really cool and super fun because he just, he would always say to me, you know, when he still says this sometimes, where he’d just be like, God, Courtney, just. I, I, I never knew that I could feel this good. I have so much energy. I’m not bloated anymore. I just feel like, like cleaner and not so like heavy and like weighted down and, you know, and it’s not like he isn’t even really like, I mean, he’s lost maybe, maybe like five pounds.

[00:35:16] Courtney Swan: It was never about weight for him. It was just he, he physically feels the difference in his body. Like, he’s like, I don’t feel as heavy and inflamed as I once did. And I think that’s what largely a lot of people start to realize. And then you, in my opinion, I think this is a healthy addiction. You get kind of addicted to that feeling really good, and then you just wanna keep going and you wanna keep eating the healthy foods and, and eating the foods that make you feel like you’re thriving.

[00:35:37] JJ Virgin: Yeah, I, I’ve always felt that the majority of people have no idea what it feels like to really feel good. Mm-hmm. Uh, between the sugar and the, you know, like, no, I, I love caffeine, but over caffeine. And then they have sugar, then they have alcohol, then they get back up and over caffeine and you know, just like round and round and you don’t have any idea what it feels like.

[00:36:02] JJ Virgin: And if you could just have that for a week, you’d never go back.

[00:36:07] Courtney Swan: You would never go

[00:36:07] JJ Virgin: back.

[00:36:08] Courtney Swan: I mean, I’ve been doing this for almost 20 years and I could never go back. Um, you know what, you just, you touched on something that I did want to talk about too. ’cause you asked me biggest offenders and I, for some reason this just completely blanked on me.

[00:36:19] Courtney Swan: One of the largest things that I look for is sugar. And I know it seems like you do too, because you talk a lot about allulose. My favorite is monk fruit. I also have allulose that I love to use, and sometimes I’ll use a little bit of stevia, but that’s actually probably before anything else. So outside of, I read the ingredients first, and then the second thing I do is I look at the nutrition label and I see how much sugar is in there.

[00:36:37] Courtney Swan: Mm-hmm. Because sugar is hiding in everything now. It’s in our peanut butters, it’s in our non-dairy milk. It’s in soups, it’s in salad dressings. Like it’s in places that you would never, I mean, I picked up a package of beef jerky at the airport the other day, and this small, maybe two serving package of beef jerky had almost 30 grams of sugar in it.

[00:36:54] Courtney Swan: And I was horrified. Whoa. It was crazy. So things like that where you just, you wouldn’t expect it to be in there. And so I always tell people this, that. I love to have my sweet treats. I love to have a dessert. I love to have, you know, a, a couple pieces of dark chocolate or, um, a little bit of ice cream after dinner.

[00:37:10] Courtney Swan: You know, something like that. If, if I haven’t had a ton of sugar throughout the day. And you wanna save your sugar for those times where it actually really counts. You don’t wanna be, yeah, counting, you know, you don’t wanna be going over your sugar threshold in salad dressings and soups and things that you would never even real realize if you took it out.

[00:37:26] Courtney Swan: So take it out of your yogurt. Yogurt is another really big offender. Get unsweetened yogurt and add a little bit of monk fruit in there, or some berries. And then you don’t have to get loaded with sugar in your, in your breakfast or whenever you eat your yogurt. So things like that. Where I think people would notice a huge difference where if you’re just buying the unsweetened versions, buying the salad dresses, dressings that don’t have the sugar, you will automatically reduce your sugar intake by so much and you won’t even realize it ’cause you won’t feel like you are, um, depriving yourself.

[00:37:54] JJ Virgin: Yeah, that’s such a good point. I literally, when I wrote The Virgin Diet, the number one question I got asked afterwards was like, they couldn’t get rid of their sugar. And I’ve never had a sweet tooth. No, you’re lucky. You know, my, I’m, I was raised, I’m a adopted, my adoptive mom, horrible sweet tooth. So if it had been training, I, I was raised on Poptarts, captain Crunch, you know, dessert every night after dinner.

[00:38:19] JJ Virgin: And at 12 I rebelled and I wouldn’t touch any of it. Um, so when I heard this I’m like, okay, let me, I wanna take all you big sweet tooth people and figure this out with you. And literally I did a two week where I just. Had a, a one week taper and then we took ’em off of everything. I mean, even lower fructose all the way down, everything.

[00:38:38] JJ Virgin: So they just, and started putting in a lot of sour ’cause that takes your sweet tooth away and just, it just went through it. And literally at the end of two weeks when they started taste the things they used to eat, it was like, ugh. Yuck. And so that’s what we really have to get to because it’s just like being at a concert and the music’s really loud and you walk out and you’re talking loud.

[00:38:58] JJ Virgin: You just gotta resensitize yourself. And we’re just, yes, we’ve just been desensitized and it’s just ridiculous. My mom literally growing up would take strawberries and throw a bunch of sugar on ’em. I’m like, what are you doing? Why are you sugaring the sugar? You know,

[00:39:13] Courtney Swan: I know, I remember somebody in my family, I don’t remember who it was, but somebody in my family did that too, and I, yeah, it’s horrifying.

[00:39:19] Courtney Swan: Yeah, that’s the thing. And you asked earlier too, what people could expect, you know, pretty quickly. I, I don’t remember. There’s a timeframe actually that we could look up, but I know that there’s a, a timeframe that’s been clocked that it takes x amount of time. Is it seven days maybe to change your palate?

[00:39:33] Courtney Swan: So if you can just get through that seven days of, you know, retraining your palate, a lot of those ultra processed foods and maybe the fast food and the super sugary stuff that you once loved, uh, they won’t taste good to you anymore. I mean, I have a perfect example of this. So I was at a, um, a, a movie last year.

[00:39:49] Courtney Swan: It was, I go to the film fest every year in Telluride and they, they were handing out free candy, like before the movie started, and they, somebody handed me a box of, um, Reese’s Pieces. And I remember looking at them going, oh my God, these were my favorite as a kid. I kind of just wanna try one right now.

[00:40:01] Courtney Swan: ’cause I haven’t had one since I was 13 or 14. So I eat one, I almost spit it out. I was like, uh. Uh, like, ew, what? This tastes so gross to me. And I remember as a kid, I loved them so much and I couldn’t even, I couldn’t even eat one of them because they tasted so like, not real to me.

[00:40:18] JJ Virgin: Yeah.

[00:40:18] Courtney Swan: Yep. And your palate really changes.

[00:40:20] Courtney Swan: And so you start craving and desiring these more whole real foods, which,

[00:40:24] JJ Virgin: so what is really amazing is, um, you’ve been at this now 14 years and now you’re in the epicenter of all of this stuff going on, which must be thrilling.

[00:40:39] Courtney Swan: Honestly. It’s very exciting. Like

[00:40:41] JJ Virgin: very exciting. I, when I first heard last year, we have a, a health business growth collective group of all the health practitioners who are really out there doing books and podcasts and stuff.

[00:40:52] JJ Virgin: And we get together once a year, big event. And our last year was a revolutionary theme, and Mark Hyman was the last speaker. And we had him come out with a big, he had a. I think it was make food healthy again or Make America healthy. He did something around that. We had different signs about this, but it was at, so at the early stages of it before all the weirdness came up with like it being, I still am like how is health political, like how could this be?

[00:41:16] JJ Virgin: Um, you know, I’d love to get some insights into what is going on where people might be able to lean into this, you know, et cetera.

[00:41:25] Courtney Swan: Yeah. So where, in my personal opinion, in one of the most exciting times of, of my lifetime, I mean, like I mentioned earlier, everything that I’ve been talking about and that I’ve been fighting for, for our food system and for our country is now finally being talked about on a political stage and why that’s important and why we shouldn’t politicize this is because this, uh, is all with the best interest of Americans at heart.

[00:41:49] Courtney Swan: Ultimately, it doesn’t matter. It, my personal opinion is that I literally do not care what politician or who is pushing this through as long as it gets pushed through, because ultimately we will all benefit from this. Um, there’s really exciting things happening. I mean, we have, you know. Bobby Kennedy, who for some reason has become such a polarizing figure.

[00:42:08] Courtney Swan: But I remember eight years ago everybody loving him and he was the darling of the environment because, you know, he got the chemicals out of the river, right? And with DuPont, he got DuPont chemicals out of, um, the Hudson River and he was on the litigation team for, against Monsanto when the guards keeper got not Hodgkin’s lymphoma from using glyphosate.

[00:42:29] Courtney Swan: So, and to me, glyphosate is like one of the things I’m most passionate about. And so for me, like he’s been a hero for so long. And if you look back at, at his track record, he has always been fighting for the American people against corporations and against the poisoning of American people. And to me, that’s all I really care about.

[00:42:45] Courtney Swan: So at the end of the day, like I said, I really don’t care who’s pushing this through as long as. Things are getting done. Um, there was an, an announcement being, or there was an announcement made two weeks ago with Bobby Kennedy of the HHS and Marty McCarey of the FDA. I was actually standing on stage behind them when they made this announcement that they are removing food dives from our food system.

[00:43:03] Courtney Swan: Now there is some rumors circulating online of people saying, oh, this is not actually a ban. They’re just asking them to do it and they’re not actually gonna be forced to do it. And the reason that people are saying that is because when Bobby made his announcement, he said, look, we have already spoken to these large food companies.

[00:43:20] Courtney Swan: They have agreed to do it, and because they have agreed to do it, we’re not actually putting in a full place ban. Yet, but he said, if we need to, and these companies pull back later and they decide they don’t want to, then, then we have the, the means necessary in order to fully push that through. But right now we want to come to an agreement where everybody’s doing this on their own accord.

[00:43:40] Courtney Swan: Now the reason why they did that is because essentially what he was saying is that we can do this literally right now. Like these companies can say, we’re gonna agree to this and we’re gonna pull them out by 2026. Or if they have to go through all the red tape and go through the voting and through Congress and everything, it’s gonna be upheld in the courts for years.

[00:43:56] Courtney Swan: So essentially what’s happening is that these food companies are saying they’re gonna agree to do it. PepsiCo has already agreed to do it. Uh, Tyson also disagreed, uh, two weeks ago I believe, or no, they announced maybe a week ago that they’re removing all artificial dyes from their food by May I think is what they said.

[00:44:13] Courtney Swan: Oh, wait, no, not May, may. I think they said may we gotta look this up actually. Wow. Because I’m like, it’s already May, so I don’t, but they have packages out. I know. So I actually, but they said something. Um. In, in a very small timeframe. I remember, but now I should look this up. You

[00:44:27] JJ Virgin: know, once a couple big companies do it, they all have to do it.

[00:44:31] Courtney Swan: Well, so that’s the other thing is that once a couple of these companies are doing it, they’re gonna be forced to. Yeah. Plus what a lot of people don’t understand is that West Virginia does banned them, so they’re no longer gonna be allowed In West Virginia, there’s also 26 other states that currently have legislation out, and they, it’s looking like they’re also gonna ban them.

[00:44:48] Courtney Swan: So essentially we’re gonna have 26, 27 states that have already banned them. Now these food companies are looking at, okay, so I’m gonna have to make no food dies food for these states, and then the ones with food dies in the state. I mean, it’s a logistical nightmare for them. So they’re gonna be forced to do it regardless.

[00:45:03] Courtney Swan: So the people that are pushing back saying, oh, it’s not a ban, they’re not actually gonna do it. I mean, they’re, they’re, they’re literally gonna be forced to. And essentially all the FDA was saying is, we can do this easy way, or we can do this the hard way and we prefer to not do it the hard way. So let’s all come together and do it the easy way.

[00:45:17] Courtney Swan: So that’s really exciting. Um, that’s

[00:45:20] JJ Virgin: actually even more. Powerful than having to force them to do it.

[00:45:26] Courtney Swan: I agree. Well, and you know, Bobby brought up actually a great point when he was on stage, he said, look, I sat down with these CEOs. Many of them have children, and many of them are starting to get concerned.

[00:45:34] Courtney Swan: So I, I understand, like, and you know, if anybody’s listening going, oh, we can’t trust the food companies. Like, I hear you. I have been literally advocating and championing against big food for the last 14 years, and in my opinion, they could not be like a larger enemy. So I get it, but I’m also giving them the benefit of the doubt that now we are one, like they’re feeling the pressure of it from the public, but also they’re starting to understand and realize, oh wow, maybe these are a bigger deal than we thought, and they are affecting our children.

[00:46:03] Courtney Swan: And now they’re starting to get concerned too. So I would like to give those people the benefit of the doubt. Now here’s the thing. Talk to me in four years, and if none of this has changed, then I will be back on my soapbox, yelling about big food and really upset. But in the, in the time, you know, right now it looks like things are really getting done.

[00:46:21] JJ Virgin: This is amazing. Well, you brought it up. I, I don’t know how we could do this interview without talking about glyphosate. Oh yeah. We have to talk about that. We have to talk about it. ’cause I, what I’ll tell you is, you know, I wrote The Virgin Diet and what the reason that I wrote this was I was looking at a lot of food sensitivity testing and teaching for a, a, uh, testing company.

[00:46:43] JJ Virgin: And I saw the same foods keep showing up. And I thought, why are you making this hard elimination diet when the same ones, and it was gluten, was causing the issue with leaky gut and sugar, of course, was causing some of the issue. But it was, it was dairy, eggs, corn, soy, peanuts. Mm-hmm. And, and then of course, gluten and sugar.

[00:47:00] JJ Virgin: And what I realized, um, when I pulled the foods out, and I always looked at this, now I go, was it the gluten or the glyphosate? Yeah. Was it the corn, soy, gluten, right. Or was it gly? And was it all of that? Or was it the fact that it’s really hard to eat? Um, ultra processed foods, if you pull all those foods out, you, you can’t eat them.

[00:47:21] JJ Virgin: So it accomplished a lot of things at once, but that has always been one of the underlying things is it’s also a way to get the glyphosate outta your diet. So let’s, uh, let’s talk about why glyphosate is such a massive concern.

[00:47:34] Courtney Swan: Yeah, and I wanna touch on what you just brought up because this is something that I’m personally very, uh, invested in because I was also affected by this.

[00:47:41] Courtney Swan: So I was diagnosed. About 14 years ago, like right around when I created real ology with a gluten intolerance, and I have been gluten-free ever since. And it started me on a similar journey as yours where I was starting to look at all the other foods. ’cause at the same time, my doctor had said, okay, we want you to avoid corn and soy as well.

[00:47:59] Courtney Swan: And the reason this happened was because I was having these debilitating stomachaches after every meal, I would literally be in a fetal position. Oh my God. Like it was horrible. Horrible. And I started questioning, okay, what are we doing to our food? And then a couple years later, I found myself traveling to Europe a lot because I was working for a Swedish woman for four years.

[00:48:17] Courtney Swan: I would go on on tour with her and I was working as her nutritionist, and we were going around to all these other European countries and we would be there for, you know, a month or two on end. And then I would come home and I would realize all of a sudden that I would be bloated again. I’d be sick again.

[00:48:30] Courtney Swan: And while I was in Europe, I could eat whatever I wanted. Mm-hmm. I think there’s a couple things happening there, and we’ll go, I wanna talk about the glyphosate, but I do think that I’d be remiss to not also mention this too. I think part of what’s happening with the gluten piece too is that uh, we have hybridized or we.

[00:48:44] Courtney Swan: So much in this country that it’s become really high in gluten and it doesn’t look like what our ancestors were eating because it’s become so hybridized that it’s a very different looking grain than it once was, and it’s way higher in gluten. So I think that’s part of it. And then I also think it’s because we’re spraying glyphosate on wheat to, um, after harvest to desiccate it.

[00:49:02] Courtney Swan: ’cause it dries it out. Now glyphosate, if your listeners are not aware of what this is, it’s incredibly concerning and it’s probably, to me, the number one thing that I’m most concerned about and I’m, I’m trying to get to Bobby about this and I hope they’re gonna address it. It’s a herbicide that’s widely used on our food supply.

[00:49:19] Courtney Swan: It was brought here after the war. It has very concerning links to, um, the chemical companies that were using very similar, similar chemical compounds as ner uh, nerve agents in World War II and also the gas chambers. And it’s very similar, similar chemical composition. It’s also made by the same companies that were creating these back in the war.

[00:49:37] Courtney Swan: And so it just, it has a very, very insidious background. And what happened was they brought them to America, told the American farmers that they could just spray everything with glyphosate. It’s not harmful. It’s safe for us, it’s safe for the plants. And what they found is that it killed everything. So then they go back to the drawing board and they say, okay, we’re gonna genetically modify these seeds to withstand the glyphosate.

[00:49:59] Courtney Swan: And what that looks like is corn and soy, for example. They can plant these plants, spray everything with glyphosate, and then the plants withstand the glyphosate and they can thrive. And then it kills. Everything else.

[00:50:09] JJ Virgin: Well, what people should be. Enough of an alert.

[00:50:13] Courtney Swan: Thank you. I have been saying this forever.

[00:50:15] Courtney Swan: I’m like, how did we think that that was okay? Yeah. Isn’t that crazy? And then we’re eating that. We’re eating that. And then on top of that, there’s another concerning level to this. So not only are we eating these crops that are being sprayed by glyphosate, but then there’s also seeds that have, um, since they’re, they’re meant to withstand the glyphosate.

[00:50:31] Courtney Swan: They have a little bit of glyphosate in the seed. And then there’s also another one that we’re planting called BT Corn, and it has something called BT Toxin in there. When I started researching this, I was really concerned because what I found was that BT toxin makes the stomach lining of the insects explode.

[00:50:48] Courtney Swan: Well, what are we dealing with now? And, and what happens is it puts little holes in their stomachs and then they explode eventually. Oh, great. So what are we dealing with right now on a large scale leaky gut syndrome? What is leaky gut syndrome? Little holes in the intestine. So I can’t help but think that there’s a connection there.

[00:51:03] Courtney Swan: And I’ve read that there are people, there’s scientists that are theorizing this, but I don’t know that we actually have studies to definitively say whether or not that it’s happening. But I just, me, I’m like, where, where, where do we leave Room for common sense to come into the room, right. With this kind of stuff.

[00:51:16] Courtney Swan: So we’re consuming this. Um, there’s very, very concerning links to cancer. I mentioned that Bobby was on the litigation team earlier against Monsanto. Bayer, the large pharmaceutical company actually came in and bought Monsanto in 2018. Monsanto is the company that created and started glyphosate, otherwise known as Roundup.

[00:51:34] Courtney Swan: Many people probably have Roundup in their garage. If you do, I would throw it away immediately. It acts as an antibiotic, so it’s killing off all the good and bad bacteria in our guts. Uh, we know that it’s an endocrine disruptor, so it’s disrupt disrupting Our endocrine systems can cause infertility. Um, it is also linked to cancer.

[00:51:51] Courtney Swan: It is by the World Health Organizations, IARC, which is the International Agency for Research on Cancer. They have declared it as a probable human carcinogen, meaning that we pretty much know that it causes cancer. So it’s highly concerning and it’s in a lot of our foods. How is

[00:52:06] JJ Virgin: it still around? I don’t, I mean, it doesn’t even make any sense.

[00:52:09] JJ Virgin: Jj, you know what’s around,

[00:52:10] Courtney Swan: what’s really concerning too, it’s because they are so powerful and they have so much money and they have many tentacles in. In Washington, they’re actually going state by state right now and looking for liability from getting sued. Um, the, I know the governor of Georgia just signed this last week.

[00:52:25] Courtney Swan: It was just on his desk that, um, in Georgia, if it gets, so I know he signed it and I believe it has to go through one more, um, signature. And then anybody in the state of Georgia, if they get cancer from glyphosate, they are not allowed to sue them. It’s crazy. And they’re going state by state right now looking for this liability.

[00:52:43] Courtney Swan: So if anybody wants to get more involved in this, um, wow. Glyphosate girl on Instagram talks about this a lot. I try to get the information out as much as I can. We’ve been trying to get people to call. We, we were just hounding the governor’s office for the last couple weeks, like calling, emailing, like, please don’t sign this.

[00:52:58] Courtney Swan: It does not benefit the American people. But there’s lies going around saying that it benefits the farmers. But let me tell you one more thing. It is really, really concerning because there’s many links to non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma farmers left and right are getting non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma from using these chemicals on their farmlands.

[00:53:15] Courtney Swan: And what happens once they get the non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma? Guess who also makes the drugs that they get to treat the cancer? This is so sickening.

[00:53:22] JJ Virgin: I can’t even believe this.

[00:53:23] Courtney Swan: Bayer, Bayer makes the poison and they also make the, i i, I don’t wanna call chemo cure, but the drug that they get in order to combat the cancer.

[00:53:32] Courtney Swan: So it’s all connected. It’s very insidious and the fact that it’s still happening is crazy. But it’s because, um, they have so much power and money in Washington and they’re getting to these governors and these people in charge and saying, you know, the farmers need this because without this, the farmers wouldn’t be able to feed the world.

[00:53:47] Courtney Swan: But I mean, there’s so much more. I could go into this

[00:53:50] JJ Virgin: if

[00:53:50] Courtney Swan: you want

[00:53:50] JJ Virgin: me to, but, so biggest, biggest places that you would get exposure to glyphosate? I would, and this has always been my concern is. Is that it’s gets into the soil and it gets into the water and then it can go, you know, into the organic crops as well.

[00:54:05] JJ Virgin: But, um, it’s gluten and soy and corn primarily. Right? But then you have, I remember being at Expo West, going to all of the different chicken manufacturers trying to find a chicken company that wasn’t feeding their chickens. Corn life is a corn and soy, and they, I couldn’t find one, could not find one that wasn’t doing it.

[00:54:26] JJ Virgin: And so, you know, you are what you eat and you are what you eat eight. So you look at it and go, what’s, if you were looking to avoid glyphosate, what do you need to do?

[00:54:36] Courtney Swan: Yeah, I mean, look, it’s, I’m gonna share a couple things ’cause I also, I don’t wanna scare people so I have some solutions. But look, it has become so ubiquitous that we’re finding it in rainwater, we’re finding it in our drinking water.

[00:54:48] Courtney Swan: Um, I think it’s. Uh, now 98% of of Americans are finding it in their urine. Like we, we all just, we’ve, at this point, we’ve been exposed to it. Um, so the best practices that you can do is buy organic or buy local from farms that, you know, are not spraying and using glyphosate. Now, organic has its own flaws.

[00:55:07] Courtney Swan: Do I think it’s the best system ever? No. ’cause it’s also, I think, corrupt in many ways, but it’s the best shot that we’ve got as far as ensuring that it has not been directly sprayed. But with glyphosate, because by USDA organic law. They are not legally allowed to spray things with glyphosate. So if you’re buying things that are organic, it’s pretty much guaranteed that it hasn’t been sprayed.

[00:55:27] Courtney Swan: Now it still is showing up in organic foods. So what I look for, for example, like oats. So oats is one of them that’s very notorious with glyphosates, so are chickpeas, um, so are almonds. I look for a little stamp on there that says glyphosate residue free. ’cause a lot of these companies are going above and beyond and testing.

[00:55:43] Courtney Swan: Wow, I

[00:55:43] JJ Virgin: didn’t know there was such a thing.

[00:55:44] Courtney Swan: Yeah. And I know a couple oat brands that are doing it now. Um, I’ve seen some almonds do it. I’ve seen a bunch of brands doing this now. So that would be your best bet. But also, you know, if you have the ability, I mean, I lived in LA for 10 years and I was so grateful to be there and have access to so many amazing farmer’s markets.

[00:56:01] Courtney Swan: And I would go to the farmers and I’d say, do you use glyphosate? And you just gotta ask and find out. So if you have the ability and option to do that, start asking and seeing if they’re using glyphosate. Um, and then I, I would say this too, look. I, I never want to instill and create fear. My, my purpose and my prerogative is not to get people to live in a bubble.

[00:56:22] Courtney Swan: I don’t live in a bubble. I mean, we have to live and love our lives and not be freaked out and anxious and live in fear all the time. I do not believe in living in fear because that’s gonna have a totally different effect on your body and your health, and you’re also not gonna enjoy life. So we do the best thing that we can.

[00:56:36] Courtney Swan: We control the controllables, which is what I always say. Make sure everything you’re bringing into your home is as clean and healthy as you possibly can find. And then you gotta just, you know, you gotta live your life and, and give it to God, you know? And, and some of the things that I do outside of that is like knowing that my body is resilient.

[00:56:52] Courtney Swan: I sweat almost every day. I got my sauna this morning. I take binders when I’m in the sauna to make sure it really gets stuff out. Get your body moving if you don’t have the ability to get to a sauna. Pour Epsom salts in a hot bath and make sure that you get it hot enough to where you are working up a bit of a sweat that will get it out.

[00:57:07] Courtney Swan: And just simply exercising and getting your lymphatic system moving. ’cause our body’s. Can and will detoxify this stuff. It’s just we have to be a little bit more on it because unfortunately all this stuff that, that we’re being exposed to.

[00:57:17] JJ Virgin: Yeah, I think um, saunas are probably the single. If, if someone was gonna look at one thing to invest in, in their health, I think a sauna is the single most important one.

[00:57:29] Courtney Swan: I completely agree. I completely agree. My fiance has been dealing with horrible psoriasis for like 10 years and we’ve been doing all this different stuff and it has really started going down since he started using the sauna. It is crazy. Wow. The difference we’ve seen. Yeah.

[00:57:43] JJ Virgin: Wow. Are you using a, which type are you using?

[00:57:46] Courtney Swan: So right now we’re so, well, okay. I have a sage here that he like refuses to use. I have the one that’s just our head is out. Yeah, we’ve got one of

[00:57:54] JJ Virgin: those too. I won’t use it ’cause my husband has so sweated it out, it’s like disgusting. So I have a, I have a sunlight in one,

[00:58:02] Courtney Swan: so that’s our thing too is that Hector won’t use it anymore because he is like, oh, like you could sweat too much in that.

[00:58:08] Courtney Swan: You

[00:58:08] JJ Virgin: need your own personal one of those. It’s.

[00:58:11] Courtney Swan: It is, it’s kind of gross. Yeah,

[00:58:12] JJ Virgin: it’s

[00:58:12] Courtney Swan: kind

[00:58:12] JJ Virgin: of gross. I mean, you know,

[00:58:14] Courtney Swan: but we’re moving soon. We’re actually moving to Austin and we’re getting a sunlight in, uh, in Austin, but we didn’t wanna get it here and then have to move it again. Yeah. So he’s been going to perspire and I think they have a sunlight in there, and that’s just what he’s been doing.

[00:58:25] Courtney Swan: Nice.

[00:58:25] JJ Virgin: Yeah, I kinda live in my sunlight and sauna every morning. It’s amazing. Tim was going in the, he has a relax and I was like, you stay over there now he’s been infiltrating my sunlight. And I’m like, but I just was at, uh, Layla Centner Center and she has this sauna space. Now I have another. I was like, now I want another one.

[00:58:44] JJ Virgin: So, yeah. It’s, it’s got all these lights and it looked really amazing. So we’ll see. That’s cool. But saunas, I agree. That is, I think the most important thing we can be doing is, is just getting this out on a way. Getting it out, yeah. Better out than in, right? Exactly. Exactly. So you have one thing that will help people here too, along with the tips you’ve been giving.

[00:59:07] JJ Virgin: You have the PDF grocery shopping list, which is, I, I know when I tell people to go get stuff and then they say, I just spent two hours in the grocery store. And you’re like, sorry. So, um, what’s on the list? And then I’ll share how they can get it.

[00:59:21] Courtney Swan: Yeah. So it covers everything that you would possibly have questions about as far as how do you navigate, uh, like what eggs do you buy?

[00:59:28] Courtney Swan: What meat do you buy? What are kind of the specifications for that? I, I go a little bit over the glyphosate and the organic stuff, uh, and processed packaged foods. If you’re, if you’re wanting to buy things in packages, just I go through kind of outline the. The, the rules, quote unquote. I don’t believe in really having rules, but you know, the, the guidelines to go through them.

[00:59:46] Courtney Swan: Yeah. Um, and then it’s super easy. It’s a PDF that you can just bring with you into the grocery store. And so if you’re at any point in the grocery store and you’re like, what did Courtney say about that one thing on the podcast, you can very easily just pull this up in your phone and you can reference it and hopefully it will help all of you guys.

[00:59:59] Courtney Swan: And it’s just all of my tips and tricks and how I educate and, and what to look for when you’re buying stuff at the grocery

[01:00:04] JJ Virgin: store. Good. ’cause we’ve just set the entire podcast up that they now are like, I gotta have that list. So that list will be at jj virgin.com/swan. Are you keeping your last name or are you changing your last name?

[01:00:17] Courtney Swan: That’s a really great question. I’m, you know, we’re talking about it right now because we both actually really like it. And we might just, you might, might switch him to me.

[01:00:25] JJ Virgin: Wow. I know. What’s his

[01:00:26] Courtney Swan: last name? Yamas. So it’s llama with an S on the end.

[01:00:32] JJ Virgin: Oh wow. Well, I, because he’s, I’ve got a llama sitting a huge llama on my boat dock.

[01:00:36] JJ Virgin: I love llamas. Oh, you do? Wow. You could, it’s how funny that you were swan and llama. I know.

[01:00:41] Courtney Swan: Isn’t that cute? We’re really leaning into that too, for some of the theme in the wedding. ’cause we thought it was so cute. We’re like, oh my God, we’re both animals. That is

[01:00:47] JJ Virgin: so cute. Well, we are, um, my husband’s last name is Oregon and mine’s virgin.

[01:00:52] JJ Virgin: So we leaned into that at our wedding as Virgin, Oregon. But it’s a little different than Swan Lama. I love

[01:01:01] Courtney Swan: that. That’s so cool though. So did you just keep your last name for public stuff, or how did you do that?

[01:01:07] JJ Virgin: I kept my last name ’cause because I, this is my, I have kids with another, another guy, um, my ex-husband.

[01:01:13] JJ Virgin: So I didn’t want to change my last name for my kids. Plus I’ve been JJ Virgin for so long. I get it. You know, so, and he didn’t care. Yeah. Like, it’s his, it’s his second marriage. It’s my third marriage. It’s like, for like, it’s not, it’s not our first rodeo. Would’ve been different, so for

[01:01:30] Courtney Swan: sure.

[01:01:31] JJ Virgin: Yes, I get

[01:01:31] Courtney Swan: that.

[01:01:32] Courtney Swan: Yeah. I’m just, um, I’m torn. I may, or we’ve talked about two, I just take his last name and I just keep Courtney Swan public. Because I’ve, same as you have had this name forever. I mean, I’m 40. Yeah. I, I’m getting a, a start on this a little late.

[01:01:45] JJ Virgin: So I actually think, you know, if I’d waited longer, I would’ve made, you know, well I made a great choice in the kids that I got, and my ex-husband’s an absolute doll.

[01:01:53] JJ Virgin: But I think that, that, like, I couldn’t even take care of a cat when I was in my twenties, you know? So I think we,

[01:02:02] Courtney Swan: putting it off is a good thing. I hear, I definitely feel that now I feel more, more than ever equipped to like actually have kids and, and do all that. So, yay.

[01:02:11] JJ Virgin: Well, congratulations. Thank you. So for everybody listening, she’s uh, engaged.

[01:02:15] JJ Virgin: I just happen to know this ’cause you’re going to your bachelorette party in Miami.

[01:02:19] Courtney Swan: Yes. Have the

[01:02:20] JJ Virgin: best time. The weather’s fantastic here right now.

[01:02:22] Courtney Swan: I cannot wait.

[01:02:23] JJ Virgin: Fun. Fun. Thank you. And uh, thank you again and I’m gonna put everything again at jj virgin.com/swan. Will link to your re real food, food, ology, re real food.

[01:02:34] JJ Virgin: That’s hard to say. I know. Real Food Ology. Yeah. Podcast and some of the great episodes and to the list. And thank you again for taking time with me. Thank

[01:02:46] Courtney Swan: you so much. Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed this.

[01:02:49] JJ Virgin: I wanna give you a couple takeaways from today’s interview that really stood out for me.

[01:02:54] JJ Virgin: And one of them was how to really know, is this an ultra processed food I should stay away from? Or is this something that I should feel good about eating? And I loved just that simple tip of could I buy this ingredient at the grocery store? So, you know, flip over the, the label and if it’s wild rice and that’s all it is, yes, you could, but if it’s something that’s got a bunch of things that you have no idea how to find in the grocery store or couldn’t pronounce, no you couldn’t.

[01:03:22] JJ Virgin: Because I think the answer really here isn’t that we’re not gonna be using foods and packages, but get the foods and packages that are really food. Right? So that’s the first one. The second one is to. Fill your grocery cart up with mainly foods, not in packages. And then the third one is to cook at home as much as possible.

[01:03:44] JJ Virgin: And I will tell you that Tim and I really have this down to a science. We have our freezer packed with, um, clean seafood meats and chicken, which we get a lot from ButcherBox, um, US Wellness Meats, vital Choice. So we have a couple different places that we go to. We’ll put some of the different places we shop at in the show notes.

[01:04:07] JJ Virgin: And of course, thrive Market’s another great resource for that as well. So we’ll put these in the show notes. And then we have our pantry stocked. We don’t have a, our pantry is mainly supplements. I’ll be honest. We have a lot of supplements in our pantry, however. We also have lentils, wild rice, some lentil pastas.

[01:04:26] JJ Virgin: I love my, um, miracle noodles. So we had, and our different oils of which is pretty much coconut oil, sesame oil, avocado oil, and extra virgin olive oil. And I get the extra virgin olive oil, either from Cas Andinos or Fresh pressed Olive Oil Club. We’ll put that in the information. And of course, primal kitchen mayonnaise.

[01:04:47] JJ Virgin: And different sauces. So I get primal kitchen ones and vinegars and spices. So we’ve got a pretty basic, uh, pantry and then we order fresh veggies in each week. And then we have, I always keep a little stash of frozen veggies. If we are coming in from outta town, we make sure we have it. So we’ve got it really down to a science where he can do a protein source in, you know, for cooking it’s gonna take 15 minutes usually, and I make some kind of vegetable or two every night.

[01:05:15] JJ Virgin: And it’s that simple. So, and again, we make it, and then we have it for the next day too. So it’s like two for one. So think about how you can easily put these things in and you know, if you’ve got stuff in your house that maybe isn’t the best right now, just. Again, don’t replace it when you run out of it.

[01:05:33] JJ Virgin: If you can gift it to someone, great, but if you can’t, you know, just start shifting. Making that shift one by one, because literally these are things as you start to make these shifts that you will feel a big difference with. All right, one more reminder, grab that PDF grocery list. That’ll be at jj virgin.com/swan.

[01:05:50] JJ Virgin: Thank you. See you next time.

[01:05:56] JJ Virgin: Be sure to join me next time for more tools, tips, and techniques you can use to look and feel your best and be built to last. Also, I’d love to connect with you and hear your thoughts on the podcast. Here’s how first, subscribe to the podcast and leave an honest review. Second, take a screenshot of your review and third text at 2 8 1 3 5 6 5 2 6 2 7.

[01:06:24] JJ Virgin: That’s 8 1 3 5 6 5 2 6 2 7. When you do, I’ll reply using my brand new virtual jj, it’s my on-demand virtual self built from my books, talks, and years of experience so I can interact with you directly. You’ll make my day and I can’t wait to hear from you. Thanks for tuning in and I’ll catch you on the next episode.

[01:06:51] JJ Virgin: Hey, JJ here, and just a reminder that the Well Beyond 40 podcast offers health, wellness, fitness, and nutritional information that’s designed for educational and entertainment purposes only. You should not rely on this information as a substitute for, nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

[01:07:08] JJ Virgin: If you have any concerns or questions about your health, you should always consult with a physician or other healthcare professional. Make sure that you do not disregard, avoid, or delay obtaining medical or health related advice from your healthcare professional because of something you may have heard on the show or read in our show notes, the use of any information provided on the show is solely at your own risk.

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