785_Dr. Steven Gundry
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[00:00:00] JJ Virgin: Hey, I am JJ Virgin, PhD Dropout. Sorry, mom. Turn four time New York Times bestselling author. As a certified nutrition specialist, fitness Hall of Famer and globally recognized leader in health. I’m driven to keep asking the tough questions and use my podcast to simplify the science of health. Into actionable strategies that help you thrive.

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[00:01:20] JJ Virgin: I’m back with one of my old neighbors. I used to live in Palm Springs for 20 years. I do admit I miss it. And uh, Dr. Gundry was one of my neighbors. So we go way, way back. And I’ve had him now on the show. Gosh, I dunno. I think this is maybe the fifth time. ’cause he just keeps churning out books. And uh, I keep, I told him today, he keeps one-upping himself.

[00:01:45] JJ Virgin: And this book, the Gut Brain Paradox is. Uh, definitely fascinating. He taught me some things today that shocked me and blew my mind, and I will tell you I challenged him a little bit. Um, so I’m excited to share this with you. I think you’ll find a lot of useful information and at the end I will jump back in to give you a couple.

[00:02:07] JJ Virgin: Key takeaways as well if I will also link to all of the podcasts we’ve done along with his books and, um, practice and all of that, and I’ll put that at jj virgin.com/gut brain paradox. So, Dr. Gundry. Is the director of the International Heart and Lung Institute in Palm Springs, and the founder and director of the Center for Restorative Medicine in Palm Springs in Santa Barbara.

[00:02:34] JJ Virgin: He is a cardiothoracic surgeon and he changed what used to do that, Loma Linda and started to shift his focus and now he is, gosh, what would you call him now? ’cause he is no longer a surgeon and now he’s a doc that really focuses a lot in nutrition and lifestyle. He has written Gut Check Unlocking The Keto Code, the Energy Paradox, the Plant Paradox Family Cookbook, the Longevity Paradox, the Plant Paradox, quick and Easy, the Plant Paradox Cookbook and the Plant Paradox, and as well as that 300 over 300 articles and peer reviewed journals using diet and supplements to eliminate heart disease, diabetes, autoimmune diseases.

[00:03:17] JJ Virgin: And multiple other diseases. He also has the Dr. Gundry podcast and the Gundry MD Wellness brand, and again, still lives between Palm Springs and Montecito. So super excited to have him on the show and again, I’ll be back at the end to give you some key takeaways that you can put. Intermediate action while you’re waiting for the gut brain.

[00:03:39] JJ Virgin: Paradox book to arrive from Amazon,

[00:03:52] JJ Virgin: Dr. Steven Gundry, welcome back. Back, back. Thanks. Can’t seem to get rid of you. That’s right. You just keep showing up on my show.

[00:03:59] Dr. Steven Gundry: I, I apologize and it’s great to see you as always.

[00:04:02] JJ Virgin: But you always have something new and provocative, uh, to talk about and, oh, yeah,

[00:04:08] Dr. Steven Gundry: let’s mix it up. Let’s stir the pot.

[00:04:10] JJ Virgin: Let’s stir the pot.

[00:04:11] JJ Virgin: You’re good at that,

[00:04:13] Dr. Steven Gundry: huh? Well, my mother trained me as a good cook, so maybe I like to stir the pot somewhere. There it is.

[00:04:19] JJ Virgin: Well, this one’s fun because it’s like, what the heck is a cardiovascular surgeon doing? Getting into gut and brain? What are you doing?

[00:04:30] Dr. Steven Gundry: Well, you know, uh, David Promader and. Dale Bredeson and I, when we’re talking together, have a great laugh and go, what the heck are two, you know, brain doctors and a heart surgeon doing, talking about the microbiome and the gut.

[00:04:49] Dr. Steven Gundry: Uh, and we all realize that I. What we were treating, uh, turns out all stemmed from the gut. And I laugh because, uh, a heart surgeon has to be a general surgeon, uh, before they can be a, a heart surgeon and a general surgeon is basically a gut surgeon. And I used to laugh when I took my general surgery boards answering all these.

[00:05:15] Dr. Steven Gundry: Gut questions and I go, I could care less about the gut. I’m trying to be a heart surgeon. Leave me alone. And everybody would laugh and her, so now you know, here I am back in the gut and here’s, you know, bison and perm. All we talk about is bacteria and gut and gut wall. So I’m in good company.

[00:05:35] JJ Virgin: Yes, yes.

[00:05:36] JJ Virgin: Yeah. Those are two. My David Perlmutter’s, one of my besties. Him and his wife, we just love them. Yes. So. When we talk about bacteria, since you threw it out there, I love this, this statement that you say that you’re, you we’re not thinking with our brains. We’re thinking with our bacteria. I. Yeah. What the heck is that?

[00:05:58] JJ Virgin: Are we just like meat suits for microbial overlords, or what, what’s going on?

[00:06:02] Dr. Steven Gundry: Uh, I, I believe that is true. Um, I think we’ve, we’ve underestimated these little creatures. Um, bacteria have been around for 3 billion years. Um. We in our current form have maybe been around a hundred thousand and there is an argument that can be made and we can get as nerdy as we want to, that we exist merely as a home for the microbiome and that they, uh, direct us to.

[00:06:46] Dr. Steven Gundry: Find what they want to eat. They direct us to do what they want us to do. And people go, oh, come on now. Bacteria. Um, really These, well bacteria are sentient beings. We have to get over this. No, they don’t think, they don’t have a brain. Uh, but bacteria c. They don’t have eyes, but they can count who’s around them.

[00:07:13] Dr. Steven Gundry: They know who their friends are, they know who their enemies are. Uh, they can even, I mean, they can squirt out nasty, killing antibiotics to against. People, bugs, they don’t like, they’ll even save some of their own kind from viral attacks, which is really cool. But we, that’s really nerdy. So we now know that hunger is actually directed by the microbiome, and GLP one is actually made by bacteria and it’s, it’s not.

[00:07:53] Dr. Steven Gundry: It. That’s where it comes from and it’s a signaling molecule from bacteria that says, Hey, we got plenty. To eat that we needed and you don’t have to be hungry anymore and, you know, stop eating. Now. That all that ancient communication system, as I talk about in the gut brain paradox is, is pretty much gone or it’s been hijacked by a bunch of bad actors.

[00:08:20] Dr. Steven Gundry: Um, in the book is how the bad actors. Took over and the good guys are hiding in the corner. Um, cowering,

[00:08:31] JJ Virgin: do you think, like, when I hear that this has been kind of my running hypothesis on the GLP ones, ’cause I think what the GLP ones have done, if you’re paying attention, has made us go, huh, shouldn’t this have been around the whole time?

[00:08:46] JJ Virgin: And is a big problem here is that we’ve so trashed our guts that we’re not producing GLP ones like we. Have to, we should. And so now we’re having to, to do an exogenous boost of them that’s doing a whole lot of things. Not just hunger, but you know, inflammation, insulin sensitivity, all sorts of good things.

[00:09:06] JJ Virgin: Yet the media would have you think otherwise. So I mean, do you think there’s something to that of, and GLP one’s probably just the tip of the iceberg of the things we’ve messed up.

[00:09:17] Dr. Steven Gundry: Oh yeah, absolutely. Um, for instance, like. I tell my patients, our great great grandparents ate whole food and they ate that whole food whole.

[00:09:32] Dr. Steven Gundry: Now, what I mean by that is, um, when we used to eat whole food and we ate it whole, uh, we didn’t have smoothie machines and protein powders, et cetera, et cetera. A lot of the food we ate. It had a lot of things, uh, fiber that we could not digest, right? We didn’t have the enzyme system, we didn’t have the fermentation vats that, you know, cows, uh, have.

[00:10:05] Dr. Steven Gundry: We didn’t have, uh, small bowel fermentation, vat, a mid, uh, midgut ferment or like a gorilla. We had most of our microbiome down in our large bowel. So. This stuff that we couldn’t adjust would drift down and our microbiome down in our colon, we’d go, oh yeah, you know, here it comes. Um, yum, yum, yum. This is exactly what we like, and we got it.

[00:10:34] Dr. Steven Gundry: Thanks a lot. You don’t have to eat anymore. Our needs are met. Now, how do we know this is true? Well, there’s a cool study that I reported outta China a few years ago where they took volunteers, they put ’em on a 14 day water fast diet. All they got was water. Half the group got a hundred calories of soluble fiber, non-absorbable soluble fiber.

[00:11:02] Dr. Steven Gundry: We couldn’t digest it, but. The gut bacteria could, would that be like 25 grams of it? Yeah, about 25 grams. Yeah. So there’s so not, not much. Um, and these guys who got that had absolutely no hunger for 14 days. The other guys 14 days. 14 days of a water fast with a hundred calories of non-absorbable fiber, no hunger.

[00:11:29] Dr. Steven Gundry: The other guys, of course, you know, were pretty miserable until, uh, keto is caught in. And anyhow, but they had no hunger and so it, it actually, they written a bunch of papers about it. It’s called The Gut Centric Theory of Hunger, and I, I really like it because to me it confirms that. You’re right. When these guys got what they wanted, they sent all these messages like GLP one, like C, CK, and all of these gaso messengers like.

[00:12:05] Dr. Steven Gundry: Hydrogen sulfide, like hydrogen that said, we’re good. You don’t have to eat anything anymore. And, and again, look at all the skinny people that existed in, you know, the 18 hundreds, the 19 hundreds, 1940s, fifties. Everybody was skinny and they ate lots of food. Uh, there’s no question about it. And so, but they were eating whole food.

[00:12:31] Dr. Steven Gundry: So now what’s happened? Is number one, when we eat food that’s mostly processed and ultra processed, we have stripped all of the bad stuff out of it, uh, that we couldn’t digest. And so now our gut microbiome, what’s left of it? Says, I hear you chewing up there. I heard you swallow, and I’m waiting down here, and nothing’s coming around.

[00:13:01] Dr. Steven Gundry: And it’s like, what the heck? You know you’ve been cheated. Go get some more. And so we go get some more. And the same thing happens. And I wrote about this years ago, with artificial sweeteners, with non caloric sweeteners. We have. Sweet receptors on our tongue, not sugar receptors. And so when we taste sweet, which way back wine was only fruit or honey, then.

[00:13:29] Dr. Steven Gundry: The brain says, oh, uh, sugar is on the way. Hey, pancreas squirt out some insulin handle it. And brain says, pretty soon I’m gonna get a little glucose. I’m gonna be happy. And then nothing arrives. And of course insulin drives down the sugar and the brain says, you got cheated. Go find some more. That’s why, you know, when I was.

[00:13:54] Dr. Steven Gundry: Running 30 miles a week and eating healthy low fat diet, but drinking eight diet Cokes a day. I was 70, I was right there with you. Yeah, I was, I was 70 pounds over Wayne going, what the heck? And I was always hungry. Head scratching. I was always hungry. Of course I was. So I think this is just another example, uh, of we’re just, we’re not giving these guys what they want to eat.

[00:14:18] Dr. Steven Gundry: Now what’s. Doubly bad is the guys who can utilize simple sugars, man, saturated fats. Now, um, occupy kind of a higher. Area in our gut where they can get to these simple carbohydrates and utilize them. And the good guys really are not good at us utilizing simple carbohydrates. They, they like to break down complex chemical bonds.

[00:14:52] Dr. Steven Gundry: So now we’ve got all these simple sugar seeking bacteria and uh, they now tell the brain, Hey, this is what we like. Go find some more of this stuff and they’ve hijacked what we’ve been sought to look for.

[00:15:14] JJ Virgin: This is why, honestly, when I hear about intuitive eating, I go in the, in a land of ultra processed food, I.

[00:15:21] JJ Virgin: Intuitive eating makes zero sense. Yeah. Because what you’ve just described is our gut bacteria basically controlling our hunger, our behaviors, our cravings, you know? Yeah. And making these decisions for us. And yet we’re going to try to tell someone they could intuitively eat. I mean, come on.

[00:15:38] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah, no, you’re right.

[00:15:40] Dr. Steven Gundry: And I, I talk about this in the gut-brain paradox. It, we just, we kind of have to get over how. Smart these guys are, and how they are able to control really our thought processes for their benefit. Uh, I talk about a whole chapter on addiction and addictive behavior, and it is fascinating. I use alcohol as an example.

[00:16:06] Dr. Steven Gundry: There are alcohol seeking bacteria, and you, first of all. I treat a lot of addicts as part of my practice, and one of the things that’s interesting is the recidivism rate of rehab treatment is about 90%. 90% fail. You choose the addiction, 90% fail because we’re trying to manipulate their minds. Uh, but I argue in the book, and I’ll argue right now, that we should be trying to manipulate our gut microbiome.

[00:16:42] Dr. Steven Gundry: For instance, you look at alcoholics, I. You can, there’s a gradation of alcohol seeking bacteria and alcoholics who have a lot of these alcohol seeking bacteria. Um, they are almost impossible to wean, you know, to get ’em off alcohol. Whereas, and these are human studies. The people who have far less of this population of alcohol seeking bacteria do a whole lot better in whatever 12 step program.

[00:17:15] Dr. Steven Gundry: And it’s, you know, it’s fascinating that, I mean, the human studies, so the more of these guys you got, the worse you’re gonna do, uh, the better chance with less of these guys. Just one example,

[00:17:29] JJ Virgin: think if a 12 step program. Think if you went, because I remember, you know, we both lived in Palm Springs and. I would’ve clients, I ended up with a lot of clients that moved to Palm Springs after they went to Betty Ford.

[00:17:40] JJ Virgin: And then I had some clients that got to go back to Betty Ford. And I remember one of them, we had her on a very specific supplement regimen to help with all of this. And then she goes into Betty Ford and they take it all away. They have candy all over the place. I’m like, so she, she can’t have the supplements, but she can have candy.

[00:18:01] JJ Virgin: Like, could you imagine if instead they actually went through and did a gut rehab? Yeah. What a difference. Now you have another provocative statement, uh, and you, you say that people with eating disorders. Anorexia bulimia may actually be rewarded with their gut microbiome like that. Okay. Controversial. Is there some science back or is this you spouting off?

[00:18:25] Dr. Steven Gundry: No, no. There’s science and it’s in the book and I’ve certainly seen it in, in my patient population and I. Talk about an unfortunate, well now fortunate young lady who, uh, was literally hospitalized with, uh, anorexia and bulimia on a feeding tube. And I think it was like so many of these young women, I don’t know, her fourth or fifth time institutionalized.

[00:18:52] Dr. Steven Gundry: And these people, addicts in general, uh, are very intelligent individuals. Um, and they. They were really smart anyhow, uh, so her parents approached me, um, that, you know, she was on a feeding tube in the hospital and we negotiated with I. Her caregivers that we were gonna start, first of all, we did a leaky gut test and we did a gut microbiome test.

[00:19:23] Dr. Steven Gundry: And it was, you know, it was horrible. All, all sorts of bad guys and leaky gut. What, what kind

[00:19:29] JJ Virgin: of test did you test? Did you do

[00:19:31] Dr. Steven Gundry: So, so I, I used, uh, I used vibrant wellness. I used, oh yeah.

[00:19:35] JJ Virgin: I love them.

[00:19:36] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah. So, and I have not been very impressed with gut microbiome tests, but I must say, and I have no. A monetary relationship with them, but their gut, Sumer is a very useful test.

[00:19:52] Dr. Steven Gundry: Um, I get a lot of useful information and we can go into that, but, so she has horrible microbiome, no gut diversity, lots of bad guys, quote unquote, and she’s got really leaky gut. So we, with her feeding tube, we put in. All the stuff she doesn’t react to in food and put in a lot of, um, nano encapsulated butyrate and butyrate producing bacteria and a lot of other gut building bacteria.

[00:20:30] Dr. Steven Gundry: And knock on wood, she came off her feeding tube within a couple of weeks. Uh, actually expressed interest. In food. And now she’s home and she’s been, she’s been out now, um, she’s in college now for over a year. Wow. And it hasn’t relapsed. And now did

[00:20:54] JJ Virgin: you redo her, her zoomer, her gut tumor? Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

[00:20:57] JJ Virgin: Yeah.

[00:20:57] Dr. Steven Gundry: And you know, the sad thing is, um, when I started doing this a billion years ago, I thought you could. Pure leaky gut in a couple weeks, and I was very naive.

[00:21:09] JJ Virgin: Wouldn’t that be great? Yeah.

[00:21:10] Dr. Steven Gundry: Wouldn’t that be great? Um, you probably thought that too, anyhow.

[00:21:15] JJ Virgin: Yep. Just seven days, seven foods. Yeah. The

[00:21:17] Dr. Steven Gundry: seven day reset.

[00:21:18] Dr. Steven Gundry: There you go. Well,

[00:21:19] JJ Virgin: that was never supposed to be just seven days. That was a tagline, but yeah.

[00:21:23] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah. Uh, I mean, it takes nine months to a year for, for most people. I have one person who I. Written about before, who took us four years to seal his gut and rebuild his microbiome. Now this was, uh, a devastated individual who was literally home bound.

[00:21:43] Dr. Steven Gundry: Um, he couldn’t walk outside the door before he’d go basically into anaphylactic shock. He had a. Unbelievable girlfriend who took care of him. Uh, and he is basically bedridden. And long, long story short, it literally took us four years. Wow. And he’s great. Now. They’re married. I mean, his, his long, I mean his long suffering girlfriend, I guess it was worth it.

[00:22:07] Dr. Steven Gundry: I mean, he is a great guy, but it took four years, so, and, but it usually doesn’t take that long. That’s just an example.

[00:22:15] JJ Virgin: Yeah. So I think of all of this. I especially think what has happened over the last couple years with the pandemic, where all of a sudden hand sanitizers, you know, you look at it. ’cause prior to that it was like, oh my gosh, we’re overusing antibiotics.

[00:22:31] JJ Virgin: I. Then you get into this where there’s still like everywhere. I remember just going into the restaurants where they were trying to insist that you use a hand sanitizer. So I would fake it ’cause I’m like, you are not messing up my, my skin biome with that hand sanitizer. But all of this, the san hand sanitizers, the antibiotics, um, what is that doing to us?

[00:22:56] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah. I mean, you, you and I. Travel on airplanes a lot and they’re still passing out these, you walk Oh yeah. Into the cabin here. Here’s your hand. Sand. Oh, and I had, I

[00:23:05] JJ Virgin: had a woman behind me the other day. I’m like, oh my gosh. She was like, she cleaned and first of all, I can’t breathe now she got the stuff all over.

[00:23:12] JJ Virgin: But I’m like, if you’re, if you’ve gotta do this, if you’ve got to sterilize your entire thing, I think you should probably just stay home in the bubble. Like, don’t go, don’t. What are you doing? Don’t come out here. You have to breathe the air.

[00:23:26] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah. It’s, I mean, we’ve. WI talk a lot in the book that some of the things that surprise me about the benefit of root vegetables and spices, um, there’s a, um, there’s a nasty there, cell wall of gram-negative bacteria called lipopolysaccharides that, um, are mischievous and we measure.

[00:23:56] Dr. Steven Gundry: LPSs and people and anti and anti LPSs. Uh, why are LPSs and LPSs stand for little pieces of shit? Uh, even though I don’t swear that’s how to remember it. ’cause that’s what they’re, sometimes you

[00:24:11] JJ Virgin: just got to and

[00:24:12] Dr. Steven Gundry: sometimes you gotta, and so these things, um, are, can really wreak havoc on our immune system.

[00:24:21] Dr. Steven Gundry: Our immune system thinks they’re living bacteria. So fast forward, as I talk about in the book, when I was reading about root vegetables and their own microbiome and the microbiome of spices, one of the things that kind of jumped off the pages was that I. The, the microbiome of spices and of root vegetables is heavily LPSs.

[00:24:50] Dr. Steven Gundry: And you go, well, wait a minute. Spices are good for you and root vegetables are good for you. What’s the deal? So then there’s this whole fascinating body of research that I lay out in paradox that, um, I. As a teenager had horrible allergies and you know, allergic to ragweed and grasses so bad that I had to get allergy shots.

[00:25:13] Dr. Steven Gundry: And for people who have had allergy shots, you start with a little tiny dose of that antigen that would normally. Put you into anaphylactic shock. In fact, the first dose did, uh, had to get epinephrine the whole bit anyhow, and you start with little doses and you build up tolerance so that the immune system gets trained that, oh yeah, I recognize that guy.

[00:25:37] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah, okay. I don’t really have to be as afraid of him as I used to be. And so you build tolerance. So. It turns out if you swallow LPSs, then your immune system becomes tolerant to LPSs via the oral root. Uh, if you, for example, inject LPSs into the small bowel directly, the animal will just get really sick.

[00:26:09] Dr. Steven Gundry: But if you swallow them, then you. Basically train the immune system that these guys aren’t very bad for you. In fact, they might be your friends.

[00:26:19] JJ Virgin: Wow.

[00:26:20] Dr. Steven Gundry: And do you need

[00:26:20] JJ Virgin: to do the same kind of dosing where you start small and build up, or can you just go

[00:26:25] Dr. Steven Gundry: for it? No, you can just go for it, which is the great thing which.

[00:26:28] Dr. Steven Gundry: To me, you know, spices have lots of really cool polyphenols, but to find out that spices may actually be good for you and root vegetables may be good for you because you’re dosing with LPSs and you’re telling your immune system. Eh, don’t worry about those guys that are coming through your colon.

[00:26:45] Dr. Steven Gundry: They’re, they’re okay. So rosemary potatoes. There you go. Well, sweet potatoes.

[00:26:50] JJ Virgin: What’s interesting with all of this is, you know when you look at that American Gut health project and you go, okay, 30 different plants a week, the saving grace of that is spices count. Yeah. And you look at every other culture that seems to be eating better than us.

[00:27:07] JJ Virgin: And they have this diversity of spices that we just don’t, what do we have? We have garlic, powder,

[00:27:16] Dr. Steven Gundry: pepper,

[00:27:17] JJ Virgin: salt and pepper, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Ridiculous. Uh, you mentioned polyphenols. I gotta ask you about this study that just came out. I know you know what I’m talking about here. The olive oil makes you have new fat cells study.

[00:27:31] JJ Virgin: Do you know what I’m talking about?

[00:27:33] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uhhuh

[00:27:35] JJ Virgin: like, break that one down for us. So just for everybody listening, there was a I the headline, I was like, oh, this is, of course they’re gonna put this everywhere. ’cause this headline is amazing. Olive oil makes you create new fat cells. And we have two things most of us don’t, don’t create new fat cells.

[00:27:51] JJ Virgin: We just fill up the ones we have. So true. This is even more scary. So what’s that all mean?

[00:27:58] Dr. Steven Gundry: Well, you an olive oil. Push it. Yeah. Almost, almost every olive oil study human study, uh, shows that, uh, consuming olive oil, even in large amounts, um, actually reduces body weight, uh, rather than makes you gain weight.

[00:28:18] Dr. Steven Gundry: It is a tremendous uh. Source of polyphenols depending on the olive tree and how it’s grown. Um, so, and I always bring this up and I get so much pushback. If you look at consumption of olive oil per capita, the Greeks lead the world. Uh. The average per capita consumption of olive oil and grease is 26 liters per year.

[00:28:48] Dr. Steven Gundry: So that breaks, yeah, that breaks down to a half a liter per week. Now the little kids aren’t having a half a liter a week, which basically means that most adults are having about a liter of olive oil per week. And there, uh, except for my big fat Greek wedding, there’s not a lot of fat Greeks in Greece. So if, if, if olive oil was really gonna make you fat, we, we should have seen this in Italians, in Spaniards, in Portuguese, in Moroccans.

[00:29:20] Dr. Steven Gundry: And I’m sorry, it just doesn’t happen. In fact, one of my favorite studies, the Predimed med study out of Spain made people, uh, use a liter of olive oil per week. Um, and they had to bring their. Lead her back to the clinic every week and get a new one, and they were, had to use it for five years and they got better heart health.

[00:29:46] Dr. Steven Gundry: They actually lost weight. They had better memory compared to a low fat diet. And one of the things they didn’t talked about, but. Women have much lower breast cancer in the olive oil group than in the low fat diet group.

[00:30:01] JJ Virgin: It makes me wonder if this, and I didn’t read the study, so shame on me. Um, I just read the headline and went, this is ridiculous.

[00:30:08] JJ Virgin: And I knew I was interviewing you, so I could ask you, but I just wonder if it’s more that they’re getting the oleic. Acid and they’re getting it from other crappy damaged, toxic seed oils or something.

[00:30:21] Dr. Steven Gundry: Well, the problem with oleic acid, and I had the pleasure of talking to the. Minister of olive oil, uh, in, in Italy at a meeting a couple years ago, and he says, you know, oleic acid isn’t a particularly interesting fat.

[00:30:37] Dr. Steven Gundry: It’s just a monounsaturated fat and there’s nothing really good about it and nothing really bad about it. Uh, but. Because it’s an olive oil. Everybody says, oh, you know, monounsaturated fat’s really good for you. He says,

[00:30:48] JJ Virgin: when it’s really the

[00:30:48] Dr. Steven Gundry: polyphenols in. Yeah. He says It’s the polyphenol this, it’s the, it’s a delivery device for polyphenol you.

[00:30:54] Dr. Steven Gundry: Let’s just get over. Yeah. Forget about, you know, aole acid. So a lot of our stuff

[00:30:58] JJ Virgin: here, which has no color to like, it’s. Basically. Oh yeah. Way of the important stuff.

[00:31:03] Dr. Steven Gundry: That’s exactly right. And unfortunately, Americans don’t like we, we haven’t been raised punt with this is pungent. Bitter makes you cough. Uh, so it’s all been kind of bred out.

[00:31:17] Dr. Steven Gundry: It’s all been, yeah. Blended out.

[00:31:19] JJ Virgin: Not surprising. At all. Like we just made the white bread of olive oil here in the United States.

[00:31:26] Dr. Steven Gundry: The wonder olive oil.

[00:31:29] JJ Virgin: Well, I’m literally at a friend’s house and I, we brought some groceries over to cook and all she had in the, the cupboard was this plastic bottle, of course, from Costco olive oil, extra virgin olive oil.

[00:31:45] JJ Virgin: But it’s like pale. Like it’s deodorant, you know, the whole bit. I’m like, this is not olive oil. This is garbage. Like, I luckily found one glass bottle of macadamia nut oil in the back, but I couldn’t find, like, I was like, we gotta go to the store. I gotta send you olive oil where we can’t do this. So, all right.

[00:32:02] JJ Virgin: I, I love that. And you know, I think that a discussion, especially since it’s the gut brain paradox, if we’re talking leaky gut, let’s move into leaky brain and how we tie this all together.

[00:32:16] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah. Um, and again, this is where, uh, pro miter and Bradon and I, uh, really have a, a wonderful time. Yeah. So again, the wall of our gut is only one cell thick.

[00:32:33] Dr. Steven Gundry: It’s. At least the surface area of a tennis court. Uh, my colleagues in London think it’s two tennis courts. I tend to agree with them, but, but let’s just say it’s a tennis court. So when we’re all watching Wimbledon, uh, there’s a tennis court inside of us and we have a design flaw. And it’s only that this tennis court is one self ticket.

[00:32:54] Dr. Steven Gundry: And they’re held together. And your listeners know with these little locked arms, tight junctions, uh, because everything we swallow and all of our microbiome is separated from us by only one cell. Because of that, about 80% of all of our white blood cells are sitting on the other side of this wall because mischief can come across and it comes across every day.

[00:33:23] Dr. Steven Gundry: And we’ve got our troops there and they attack it and create some local inflammation. And that was it. Now, um, almost all of us have leaky gut, uh, now. The hoards are coming across the wall constantly. Our immune system is getting overrun and they’re going, oh my gosh. You know this, this army is too, too strong to hold back.

[00:33:54] Dr. Steven Gundry: They’re breaking through our front lines. They’re coming for you, and they send. Text messages up to our immune system in the brain, the microglial cells and the astrocytes, uh, literal cytokine text messages that we’re, we can’t hold them back. They’re coming. Protect yourselves. Protect the neurons. You have to, you’re the bodyguards of the neurons.

[00:34:20] Dr. Steven Gundry: And so what happens is, is is kind of twofold and it’s really scary, and a lot of this came outta Harvard. These. Um, microglial cells, think of them as Pac-Man, and the neurons have all these dendrites that are talking to other neurons. And here’s the neuron. So the microglial cells says, oh my gosh, we’ve gotta get everybody back to the fort.

[00:34:44] Dr. Steven Gundry: And so they literally eat these dendritic processes back and they pull up everybody and they literally pull up the drawbridge to protect this neuron. And so you see. These dead neurons surrounded by these microglial cells and among other things that’s called a Lewy body. But what’s also important, we have to remember during, after nine 11, all of a sudden.

[00:35:13] Dr. Steven Gundry: We had concrete barriers that sprung up in front of our airports, in front of our courthouses, in front of our federal buildings. Anything that needed protected because a terror was supposed to gonna bring a truck or a car bomb and smash through the front door and blow up. So we put all these concrete barriers to keep the terrorists at a distance.

[00:35:36] Dr. Steven Gundry: So when I tell my patients who are worried or who have, um. Tau proteins or amyloid plaque, that, guess what? Those are concrete barriers that your immune system has erected because the hoard is coming or is already there. And Breen in particular, uh, to his credit is called, you know the called for that?

[00:36:03] Dr. Steven Gundry: These are anti. Inflammatory antibacterial barriers that have been erected and the idea that we ought to take them down with these amyloid plaque busting drugs, which have only made things worse rather than better, um, is just crazy because the problem is coming from the gut.

[00:36:29] JJ Virgin: So. Amazing. So you could have the barriers.

[00:36:32] JJ Virgin: The barriers aren’t the issue. The issue is in the gut. So if you fix the gut, you Yeah. Fix it.

[00:36:38] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah. And that’s, you know, I start the book with a fascinating, uh, physician, 62-year-old woman who came to me out in Northern California with five years of Parkinson’s, uh, on two meds, wasn’t working. She had the mask of Parkinson’s.

[00:36:56] Dr. Steven Gundry: Um, her husband did. Really all the talking horrible tremor and. Um, s so she had horrible leaky gut. She had a lot of neuroinflammation. She had a broken blood brain barrier, and we can measure these things.

[00:37:13] JJ Virgin: How do you measure your blood brainin barrier?

[00:37:15] Dr. Steven Gundry: There’s actually antibodies to the blood brain, blood brainin barrier.

[00:37:19] Dr. Steven Gundry: Um, uh, vibrant, uh, does both what’s called a neuro zoomer and a neuro zoomer. Plus the neuro zoomer will measure antibodies to the blood-brain barrier. Um, so you can measure that. I’ve always said if you have leaky gut, I can virtually guarantee you you have leaky brain. Um, and that’s stood the test of time, at least in my clinic anyhow, so you, um, you have to, so this lady had leaky brain.

[00:37:53] Dr. Steven Gundry: She had neuroinflammation a lot of, she had a lot of anti dopamine antigens, antibodies. So we sent her home on the program and my, my pa talked to her on the phone after six months and things were getting better. So, um, and her leaky gut was getting better. And so I saw her a year after I had first seen her back in my office and I actually didn’t recognize her.

[00:38:24] Dr. Steven Gundry: Um, she didn’t have a tremor, big smile on her face, and her husband jumped up. And he gives me a big bear hug and he grabs my shoulders and pushes me away. And he looks into my eyes and he says, thank you for giving me my wife back. This is the girl I married. You know, she’s back running. She, she was a marathon runner.

[00:38:45] Dr. Steven Gundry: She says she can beat me now. Thank you. And all of a sudden, you know, all three of us are hugging and misty eyed. So. So that’s a wonderful story. And of course she didn’t have leaky gut, she didn’t have antibodies anymore to wheat and et cetera. So, and that’s who’s in the book. Now, fast forward to this year.

[00:39:05] Dr. Steven Gundry: Earlier this year, I saw her on her two year anniversary and I had the benefit of seeing her leaky gut tests and her antibody tests. And so I said, so, you know, and she looks good. Looks good. I said, you know, how’s it going? She says, you know, fine, but I,

[00:39:28] JJ Virgin: I

[00:39:28] Dr. Steven Gundry: can

[00:39:28] JJ Virgin: feel I’m slipping. I was like, uh oh. Did she start cheating on the diet or something?

[00:39:32] JJ Virgin: Well,

[00:39:33] Dr. Steven Gundry: that’s

[00:39:33] JJ Virgin: what I’m

[00:39:34] Dr. Steven Gundry: wondering. So these people are so motivated. They usually don’t, ’cause

[00:39:39] JJ Virgin: they know. They know the other side.

[00:39:42] Dr. Steven Gundry: They’ve been there. Yeah, they’ve been there. Right. You, most of my bad autoimmune patients, once they. In remission, they don’t wanna go back. So I, and sure enough, she’s got leaky gut, not bad, but it’s there and she has antibodies to gluten.

[00:39:59] Dr. Steven Gundry: I.

[00:40:01] JJ Virgin: And

[00:40:01] Dr. Steven Gundry: I’m, and I’m going

[00:40:02] JJ Virgin: sneaking in or something? Yeah.

[00:40:04] Dr. Steven Gundry: He said, where’s this coming from? And I said, you know, I know you’re not chief. Oh geez. You know, wouldn’t dare do that. And I said, and shampoo, they said, are you go, are you going out to eat much? They said, nah, it’s not worth it. Uh, blah, blah, blah. Or if we go, we take carry of our own salad dressings.

[00:40:22] Dr. Steven Gundry: I said something, something’s getting in you, um, your husband. I said, anything else changed in your lives? And her husband perks up. He says, yeah, six months ago, our 3-year-old son moved back into our house because he’s been so impressed with mom that he’s changing careers and he’s going to nursing school ’cause he is gonna be a nurse, you know?

[00:40:45] Dr. Steven Gundry: Great. And he is living with us. And I said, that’s so great. Yeah. And, and I, I said. He follows the program, right? He says, oh no, he won’t follow the program. And I went, really? He says, wait a minute. If he’s slicing bread on our cutting board, regular bread, and then we’re using that cutting board to slice our bread, which is made outta sorghum flour, blah, blah, blah.

[00:41:17] Dr. Steven Gundry: Could she be picking it up from him? I said, oh, thank. God, you know, we, we’ve got it figured out. Now. If you had asked me this 25 years ago whether a couple of molecules of gluten could do this, I would’ve laughed you outta the room. But I have so many canaries in my practice.

[00:41:37] JJ Virgin: Yeah.

[00:41:37] Dr. Steven Gundry: That she just needs a few of these little molecules to start the cascade started.

[00:41:42] JJ Virgin: Well, when you get that hypersensitive

[00:41:45] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah.

[00:41:46] JJ Virgin: It’s, yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s ama I know. I started going, she changed lotion. She did like, it’s, it’s a thing. Well, thank God you are testing these things. Well, and that, you know, I mean, and you caught it, you caught it early right before it became a total thing.

[00:42:02] JJ Virgin: What, so you keep talking about, you know, I center off on the program. Can you just give us a little, and I know that, that this, this is probably in the book. A lot of this is in the book, but you know, a couple key takeaways of someone listening right now going, oh. You know, who says I definitely would love to have an, an optimal gut microbiome.

[00:42:23] JJ Virgin: Um, what are some of the things that they could do right now while they’re waiting for their book to arrive? I.

[00:42:29] Dr. Steven Gundry: Well, the first thing they can do is make sure, uh, if you’re an average American, that you’re taking 10,000 international units of vitamin D three a day and supplement that with a little vitamin K two.

[00:42:44] Dr. Steven Gundry: The University of California, San Diego, uh, and you’re down to San Diego right now, has a big vitamin D research unit and they think the average American should be taking 9,600 international units a day.

[00:42:57] JJ Virgin: That’s a, I mean, ’cause you still hear people going, oh, don’t go over 2000. I’m like, oh

[00:43:04] Dr. Steven Gundry: wow. They have, they have never seen vitamin D toxicity at 40,000 international units a day.

[00:43:10] Dr. Steven Gundry: I have never seen Vitamin D toxicity. I may exist, but I’ve never seen it. And I have some patients early on that I have on 40, 45,000, 50,000 a day. Um, I. If I feel I’m coming down with something, I will take, yeah, a hundred get it. I’ll take 150,000 international units of vitamin D three, three days in a row.

[00:43:33] Dr. Steven Gundry: So basically I’m taking a half a million international units of Vitamin D three in three days and I’m not dead yet. Uh, and I don’t have kidney stones and I don’t have kidney failure, and my calcium isn’t high and. Uh,

[00:43:46] JJ Virgin: blah, blah, blah,

[00:43:47] Dr. Steven Gundry: blah, blah, blah. And I learned, uh, yeah. So that’s number one. I learned that.

[00:43:52] Dr. Steven Gundry: Now, do you have

[00:43:53] JJ Virgin: people also do some lab tests and just monitor? Are there levels you’re trying to get them to or just Yes.

[00:43:59] Dr. Steven Gundry: Um, yeah. We, we look at vitamin D levels every three months in our patients and many people. Particularly with leaky gut, it’s re you have to use a lot of vitamin D. Yeah. And once the leaky gut seals, you can, you can lower the doses.

[00:44:15] Dr. Steven Gundry: And in fact, before the days of leaky gut, this is how I followed my patients, who I thought had leaky gut, was watching their vitamin D levels. And what we now know is that number one, vitamin D. Contributes to a diverse gut microbiome, and the higher your vitamin D, the more diverse the microbiome. But more importantly, there are stem cells that line our gut, and our gut turns over when it’s one of the fastest turnovers of any cell line.

[00:44:49] Dr. Steven Gundry: And so these stem cells have to. Grow and become a gut cell. They’re sensitive to vitamin D and vitamin D literally has to push them to differentiate into a gut lining cell. And if you don’t have much vitamin D, they literally sit there and twiddle their thumbs. The third thing that I’ve learned in autoimmune research is that our immune cells, uh, are kept in check with vitamin D, vitamin D.

[00:45:20] Dr. Steven Gundry: Tells them to not get so fake, trigger happy. And what’s interesting, for instance, in rheumatoid arthritis, we’ve learned that the immune cells in rheumatoid arthritis do not listen to vitamin D like they should. And you gotta literally hit ’em over the head with a sled hammer of vitamin D to get him to quiet down.

[00:45:42] Dr. Steven Gundry: So it’s, it’s really threefold. Repair the wall of your gut, get a more diverse microbiome. Tell your immune system to, you know, take a powder. And so that’s the number one thing people can do. Uh, I, I learned this, I learned most of what I’ve learned from my patients, either asking me a question or showing me something.

[00:46:01] Dr. Steven Gundry: And I learned this in Palm Springs about almost 25 years ago now. I saw a husband and wife, uh, for the first time, 78 years old, and. Perfectly normal looking people sitting across from me. And their vitamin D levels were both about 270 nanograms per milliliter, wildly high and high clean clinic says Quest 150 is maximum.

[00:46:32] Dr. Steven Gundry: Most docs think 80 is toxic. And so here they are, 270 and I’m. Looking at them and I’m looking at their lab. Were they

[00:46:41] JJ Virgin: supplementing or just golfing all the time?

[00:46:43] Dr. Steven Gundry: No. Oh, we can’t do it with the golfing. So I said, you take a lot of vitamin D, don’t you? And they said, oh yeah, it’s a longevity hormone. And I’m looking at them.

[00:46:53] Dr. Steven Gundry: Really? Yeah. Right. That’s cute. And. And I’m looking at their calcium’s normal and I’m going, any kidney stone? No. And their kidney function’s fine. And there’s this theory that maybe you get numb fingers and toes. I said, any numb finger and toes? No. Why? I said, well, you know, as far as I’m concerned, you know, you should be dead.

[00:47:15] Dr. Steven Gundry: And they said, well, what do you mean? I said, well, I’ve been taught that above 80 is, you know, toxic. And he looks at me and he says, you don’t know much about vitamin D do you, Sonny? And I go, well, just what I’ve been taught in medical school. And they said, well, why don’t you read about it? So I did. And of course, vitamin D is amazing.

[00:47:37] Dr. Steven Gundry: You got schooled is an amazing longevity hormone. And it’s interesting, some of the oldest living people actually have very high levels of vitamin D,

[00:47:46] JJ Virgin: so, oh, I think it’s probably one of the big links with autoimmune nowadays. Oh gosh. Yeah. Like think about it like. Well,

[00:47:52] Dr. Steven Gundry: you

[00:47:52] JJ Virgin: know, the rise of sunscreen and the rise of autoimmune.

[00:47:55] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah. Yeah. 80% of my patients in Southern California

[00:48:00] JJ Virgin: have, I’ve never seen a normal vitamin D or an optimal, I’d say normal. Forget that. Right. But I’ve never seen a vitamin D above, say, 50 without supplementation. They’re like 12, 12, 20.

[00:48:13] Dr. Steven Gundry: Mercola’s done it, but he’s walking in a Speedo. It’s for Lauderdale.

[00:48:17] Dr. Steven Gundry: Well, he lives out in Florida. Yeah, he you on the beach for an hour and a half every day. Yeah. And you know, I don’t have the ability to walk on the beach for a half an hour, an hour and a half every day in a Speedo, but he can only get to about seven. I don’t

[00:48:30] JJ Virgin: really wanna see that either. You know, guys.

[00:48:33] JJ Virgin: Okay. Anyway, so vitamin D.

[00:48:36] Dr. Steven Gundry: So vitamin D, that’s number one. Number two, um. I, I can seal your leaky gut and I, you know, I have two, my number one, number two, bestselling compounds, gun Gundry, md Shameless plug, bio Complete three, and Total Restore. So those are the one two punch. But I keep telling everyone, and I see this every day.

[00:49:01] Dr. Steven Gundry: I can seal your leaky gut. It’ll take a while, but I can seal it. But if you keep swallowing razor blades, you’re gonna tear it right open. And what are razor blades and my humble opinion, things like lectins, things like oxalates, things that have glyphosate in them, which is almost every food that we consume here in the United States.

[00:49:23] Dr. Steven Gundry: And. And if you keep swallowing ibuprofen and nap prien, you will create holes in your gut. Swallowing an ibuprofen is like swallowing a hand grenade. Really is.

[00:49:38] JJ Virgin: Yeah.

[00:49:39] Dr. Steven Gundry: Sorry.

[00:49:40] JJ Virgin: Oh no. Do you know, um, early on when I had my, ’cause I blew up my knee at 17 and in my twenties, my knee doctor in LA told me I could use as much Advil as I wanted.

[00:49:53] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yep.

[00:49:54] JJ Virgin: Well, it got me into this career, you know? That’s why I got so interested in leaky gut. ’cause I destroyed mine. Yeah. You know, because I just, oh, okay. Just use, oh yeah. I wanted baby day. I see

[00:50:08] Dr. Steven Gundry: my, I see a number of athletes who have been, you know, prescribed this or told, you know, just chew it like candy.

[00:50:15] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah. And all of a sudden, you know, they come, they, they’ve got Crohn’s and they’ve got, you know, psoriasis and they’ve got Hashimoto’s and they’re going, what the heck? You know, I was very healthy. I said, yeah, ’cause you just, you was the perfect storm to great leaky gut. Yeah.

[00:50:31] JJ Virgin: Yeah. Yeah. I avoid that like the plague.

[00:50:33] JJ Virgin: Okay. What, what’s number three?

[00:50:35] Dr. Steven Gundry: Well, that was kind of number three. Um, so

[00:50:37] JJ Virgin: wait, we had, number one was D,

[00:50:39] Dr. Steven Gundry: number one was D number two. Uh, there are, oh, quit, well

[00:50:45] JJ Virgin: quit the razor blades. But the razor blade was,

[00:50:48] Dr. Steven Gundry: that was

[00:50:48] JJ Virgin: ibuprofen.

[00:50:49] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah. Well, and lectins and ox oxygen? No. And lectins. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. The third one was I ibuprofen.

[00:50:56] JJ Virgin: Okay. Alright. And much more in

[00:50:59] Dr. Steven Gundry: the book and move from America.

[00:51:02] JJ Virgin: Yes. I was just gonna say it is the thing we know as soon as we leave the country, as long as we’re not going to the UK or Canada, but as soon as you go to Spain or Portugal, it’s like, oh my gosh.

[00:51:16] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah. And not a, you know, not a day goes by that, uh.

[00:51:21] Dr. Steven Gundry: Knock on wood about, I have a remission rate of 94% with autoimmune disease within a year, and these people will go to Europe on vacation and you know, they can’t help themselves. They have croissants and baguettes and pizzas and, and they don’t react. They feel fine. Right. And then they come back here and they go, oh, you know, Dr.

[00:51:43] Dr. Steven Gundry: Gundry cured me. No he didn’t, but it cured me and I can have all this stuff. And they start eating our bread, you know, our organic sourdough bread and they have our organic pizza or whatever. And within two or three weeks. The, their arthritis flares, their psoriasis pops and they call me up and go, what the heck?

[00:52:04] Dr. Steven Gundry: I thought you cured me. I said, no. Um, they didn’t have glyphosate over there. Yeah. You can’t

[00:52:10] JJ Virgin: cure someone from glyphosate if they’re like, you’re never gonna be able to eat glyphosate. Glyphosate, there’s, it’s, that is another razor blade. It is amazing to me. ’cause, and I talked to my husband about this. I go, we do everything to eat clean here.

[00:52:27] JJ Virgin: And yet the minute we go to Europe, we feel fabulous. We come back and we’re getting, we’re ordering, you know, the meats from the right place, like everything. And still it’s, yep. You know?

[00:52:40] Dr. Steven Gundry: Yeah. I, I just, garbage here. It’s just, I just took on a, an actor Vian, a young guy, uh, and I was talking with his wife and, um.

[00:52:53] Dr. Steven Gundry: She says, you know, it’s the weirdest thing over here. He struggles. He, he basically, you know, eats like a, like a bird over here. And he, he, you know, he. He’s fat and he can’t control his weight. And we go over to Italy, you know, on, on location and, you know, he’s, he’s plowing in the pasta and the pizzas and the guy loses weight.

[00:53:17] Dr. Steven Gundry: And she said, what the heck? You know, it’s not fair. And I said, yeah, we’ll get into that. You’re, you’re right. Yep. Understatement

[00:53:27] JJ Virgin: of the year. Yeah. What the, what the heck? Yeah. Oh, well. But at least there are answers and yes, you’re doing the good work. Thank you for that. This is a really fascinating book, the Gut-Brain Paradox.

[00:53:41] JJ Virgin: Um, we’ll put all of your interviews, your, your products, all, all your nitty gritty details@jjvirgin.com slash gut brainin paradox. We have so many links for you, so I’m gonna move ’em all. Thank you to that one thing so that everybody can, uh. Track you down, get your stuff, get your book. Uh, this new book is every book you’ve outdone yourself, so you just keep outdoing yourself again.

[00:54:05] JJ Virgin: And that’s hard. Most people write their first book, it’s their best book, and it kind of is a downhill slide into home from there. But you just keep going and digging in, finding new research and

[00:54:15] Dr. Steven Gundry: getting

[00:54:15] JJ Virgin: more controversial.

[00:54:17] Dr. Steven Gundry: I know, I just, I just. Just signed a contract for two more books. It’ll be number 11 and number 12.

[00:54:23] Dr. Steven Gundry: So Yay. A y, YY, y are crazy. Well, ’cause you know, each book actually leads me down another rabbit hole. Yeah. And this current book that led me into a new rabbit hole. So we will see. Alright. Oh,

[00:54:36] JJ Virgin: we’ll see where, where we go next. All right. Well I appreciate you. Thank you for taking the time.

[00:54:40] Dr. Steven Gundry: I appreciate you being here.

[00:54:41] Dr. Steven Gundry: For me to come on. Thank you. Yeah.

[00:54:44] JJ Virgin: Maybe next time we’ll do one in Palm Springs.

[00:54:46] Dr. Steven Gundry: There you go. A reunion tour.

[00:54:48] JJ Virgin: Yes. Yes. All right. I was super excited to hear that. Latest research on vitamin D. I hadn’t heard that. Who knew? Um, you know, because my advice has been to do 5,000 as your starting dose and then go to 10 based on labs.

[00:55:05] JJ Virgin: So sounds like you’re better off just pumping it straight up to 10. Right from the start. So we have a 5,000 IU vitamin D with K two. I actually just upgraded the formula to solely be K two because, uh, we get K one in our diet and really the focus should be on supplementing K two. So that was the first one.

[00:55:25] JJ Virgin: Wow. And then the other biggie, I think is, I hope that you’re not still taking ibuprofen. Um, boy is there just so much research out there. But again, as I shared in the show, I, um, I. Was a victim of way too much ibuprofen growing up because of being told I could take however much I wanted and yes, I could, but my gut suffered big time, which led me down the, the direction I went in my career.

[00:55:55] JJ Virgin: So there are a lot of different things you can do out there to help with. Pain. One of the biggest ones is just exercise, because exercise, uh, causes a release of myokines when your muscles contract that reduce inflammation. So that is a biggie. And then of course, things like, um, fish oil that helps modulate, I always call nature’s Advil.

[00:56:17] JJ Virgin: So that is helpful as well. And another one that I love is, uh, I’ve been using BPC 1 5 7 from a company called Health Jevity, which we’ll put some information in the show notes as that as well. So that’s another one I’ve been using. And oral, I don’t have to inject it amino like needles if I don’t need them.

[00:56:36] JJ Virgin: So hopefully that is helpful to you. And, uh. Be sure to subscribe if you haven’t yet, and if you know someone that this would be helpful for, go ahead and share it with a friend. It helps a lot. Thanks. See you in the next show.

[00:56:54] JJ Virgin: Be sure to join me next time for more tools, tips, and techniques you can use to look and feel your best and be built to last. Also, I’d love to connect with you and hear your thoughts on the podcast. Here’s how. First, subscribe to the podcast and leave an honest review. Second, take a screenshot of your review and third text at 2 8 1 3 5 6 5 2 6 2 7.

[00:57:23] JJ Virgin: That’s 8 1 3 5 6 5 2 6 2 7. When you do, I’ll reply using my brand new virtual jj. It’s my on demand virtual self built from my books. Talks and years of experience so I can interact with you directly. You’ll make my day and I can’t wait to hear from you. Thanks for tuning in and I’ll catch you on the next episode.

[00:57:50] JJ Virgin: Hey, JJ here, and just a reminder that the Well Beyond 40 Podcast offers health, wellness, fitness, and nutritional information. That’s designed for educational and entertainment purposes only. You should not rely on this information as a substitute for, nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

[00:58:07] JJ Virgin: If you have any concerns or questions about your health, you should always consult with a physician or other healthcare professional. I. Make sure that you do not disregard, avoid, or delay obtaining medical or health related advice from your healthcare professional because of something you may have heard on the show or read in our show notes, the use of any information provided on the show is solely at your own risk.

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