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Insider Secrets to Mastering Metabolism and Hormones with Dr. Patrick Flynn | Ep. 452

Why Some Doctors Get Hormones Wrong (and How to Change the Narrative)

Have you ever felt misunderstood by your healthcare provider or invisible about your health condition? According to Dr. Patrick Flynn, women have been misled when it comes to their hormones. We have more information than ever, he says, and yet women are getting sicker than ever.

In this lively, information-packed episode, JJ talks with Dr. Flynn – a chiropractor, bestselling author, and the founder of The Wellness Way – about optimizing hormones and why the healthcare system often gets information wrong. Dr. Flynn built his practice around achieving the best clinical outcomes by testing for and addressing the cause of dysfunction. Sometimes called The Hormone Whisperer, Dr. Flynn believes many doctors were never taught how a woman's hormones work.

Here, he shares why thinking differently is so critical for your health. You’ll hear about Dr. Flynn’s “troubled and hyper” childhood that brought him to education rather than medication, along with a special relationship that shifted his perspective about health. He also shares how food impacts your hormones, a simple but profound analogy about why healthcare lets so many people down, and why bloodwork alone isn’t enough to evaluate women’s hormones.

You’ll also learn about how to manage hormones around menopause, the truth about bioidentical hormones, the overlooked superfood that Dr. Flynn says is one of the healthiest food choices and the number one thing that adversely affects male hormones. Dr. Flynn’s “think different” perspective about hormones and metabolism has helped many people take control of their health and restore their hope and health. Listen up and learn why that approach can help you, too.

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ATHE_Transcript_Ep 452_Dr. Patrick Flynn
JJ Virgin: [00:00:00] Hey, this is JJ Virgin. Welcome. And thanks so much for joining me. This is ask the health expert here. I put the power of health in your hands and give you access to the top. People in health and wellness. In each episode, I share safe ways to get healthy, lose weight, heal your gut detox and lots more. So if you wanna get healthy and get off the dieting for life Merry go round, I'll give you strategies that will help you look and feel better fast.
All right. Today's show is going to make you think. And it's fantastic. I have my old friend, Dr. Patrick Flynn with me. He's a founder, best selling author and professional clinician. He has hundreds of wellness way clinics across the country, and he helps people [00:01:00] think differently, differently about their.
And by doing that, restore their hope and restore their health and finally feel great. I am super excited to have him with me and give you this concept. I'm not gonna spill the beans on this, but the concept, the way he thinks about approaching healthcare is, is so elegant and simple and so profound.
And that is what we are gonna be sharing with you. And I think it's gonna change the whole way you approach you approach health. He also has. Little yummy freebie for you as well that I'm putting at JJvirgin.com/wellnessway. And so you will wanna grab this cookbook that he is giving as well. And I will be right back with Dr.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: Flynn.
JJ Virgin: Dr. Patrick, Flynn [00:02:00] welcome to the
Dr. Patrick Flynn: show. Thank you so much for having me excited to be with you again.
JJ Virgin: Well, how fun that you were just reminding me that we've met each other a couple times and like, here we are again. I wish I'd known sooner. I would've had you on sooner because we are definitely digging into a topic that is a huge home run for my audience.
And that is women's hormones. So it begs the question Patrick, as to why you a dude, a dude doctor have become such a big deal in women's hormones and
Dr. Patrick Flynn: health. It's funny cuz I get that so often, especially when I speak. Female conferences and I'm the only male speaker. So it's gonna, I can lead into that quite well.
And it just starts with a, just actually a long term story. And it started actually when I was in third grade I was a very sick kid. I was diagnosed as a juvenile delinquent when I was in third grade. And to fast forward that story with leads to the whole female hormone aspect is Just because I had these issues and they would probably diagnose me today of like Asperger's or some form of autism that way.
Our, the system that obviously we were all dominated in our whole career is actually some [00:03:00] medical form of treatment that way. Well, they didn't have anything for us. So I just suffered as young kid bad grades, all things of that, no focus memory. And then as a teenager some things happened actually food wise, things happened in my life to where I, I started to figure out they listen that guess what foods can affect our.
Today, obviously John Hopkins had coined the term, the gut brain connection, but it was interesting that as a teenager, I started to actually really get into foods and things like that and started to change my own health, started to change my psychiatric health. Well then I'm like, oh my goodness. Well, the medical field didn't have anything to succeed for me that way.
So when I went to college, I started to study, you know nutrition, immunology and all my background undergraduate Classes everything. And that's the path I took. And I realized like, oh my goodness. But I didn't. I didn't, I knew that that wasn't gonna be able to have a big impact besides maybe being a little consultant and things like that.
So I started, so I looked at all the doctoring aspect. I said, you want something? I said, I actually liked what the chiropractor fuel was doing. So I decided to take my doctors did that way besides having my other degrees. And then no joke. I was just finishing up with chiropractic school and I met this beautiful.[00:04:00]
No. And then a couple weeks of dating, no joke. She actually said she was gonna marry me. And, but as we started dating, had
JJ Virgin: you said anything like you were gonna marry her or did she just like go by the way, guess what, Patrick,
Dr. Patrick Flynn: on a second. On our second date, she looked at me and said, I think I'm gonna marry her.
And I looked at her, I said, I think you're right and stuff. And, but then we started dating in two weeks in our dating life. I went her to visit her. And I was still an intern. I wasn't even a doc yet. And all of a sudden she actually wanted to sit down and have a chat with me because she told me now that she was very sick and no joke.
And even though my education, my background, I'm almost a doc that way I couldn't tell because you couldn't tell by looking at her, but she suffered from endometriosis. Cystic acne also have colitis and cluster headaches and she was on no joke, a bunch of drugs. She was seeing a chiropractor, taking a bunch of supplements and progressively getting worse, but that wasn't the big part that she wanted to talk to me about.
She was told that she couldn't have kids and infertile and all the problems that way. And they almost, we yanked her herself when she was 19 years old, because all the problems going on with her. And well, obviously she didn't do that because it didn't make [00:05:00] any sense to her and her parents and stuff, but she didn't want me not to have children.
So she actually said, you know, I'm giving an opportunity to end our relat. So I had to make a choice and obviously to fast forward to today, we have, I've been married to her for over 20 years and we have four beautiful girls. And so the story came on. The fact that I realized that not only did the medical or natural world dramatically fail her is the fact that we have more medical and natural therapies today.
And what I learned in female hormones back in 1999, just from my own background, but getting people to look at it differently that way we've not only been able to. My whole career has been focused on fertility. Be able to, to show women that now they so misled when it comes to their hormones, but they're not even taught how to take care of them.
But on top that they're lying to 'em. That's why we see it. It's why we actually have more medical and natural things that I know it's really natural thing in there. Cuz we have more availability to it that way. Yet infertility is actually one outta three couples. We have more P PCs. We have more infertility.
We have more endometriosis. We have more cancers ever in history, which are all very closely related to hormone diseases that way. [00:06:00] And it doesn't matter if we have more natural things or more medical things. If our thinking doesn't change, women are gonna be just as sick 20 years from now is day when I started 23
JJ Virgin: years ago and probably even more sick because all those things you just listed and it is crazy that there's more information than ever.
And we are just. Getting sicker. It's like marching down the path. So, so a lot of provocative stuff in that, that intro that you just did, which of course makes you go, okay. So what are the lies? Like, what is it that we are being told? You know, I mean, there's so many things I, I can think of just all the people that come to me and say, Hey, I went to the doctor and got Prozac and a birth control pill, you know, it's like, Ugh.
But you know, and I think it's interesting. You also brought up the natural. World, because just trying to medicate with a supplement really is no different. , let's, let's be honest. So what are these big lies and what do we need to.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: Well, let's start with one thing I want to accomplish on today's podcast is just get people to think differently.
Because if I get you to think differently, then the misunderstanding [00:07:00] hormones, or even healthcare, the misunderstanding of which, which they're leading women down the wrong path, and even some lives will stick out or sore thumb. So I decided when I was way back in practice, when I first started end up actually say, when I started practice, they were trying.
Understand what I was doing. So I kind of have an analogy that I use and now Durham, and I've spoken so much across the world. A lot of doctors use this now, but I brought this back in 1999. I said, I want you to think about healthcare in this. Well, and it can answer all these questions. If I were to, you know, let's say, let's say all of a sudden somebody's house was on fire.
Okay, we're gonna call the fire department, cuz they're probably the best professional to handle that situation. They're gonna get there cuz time is the essence cause they wait too long, your house burns down and they're gonna use their tools in education to put it out. Their tools are basically an acts and hose and they'll do a very good job trying to get there on time, put it out.
But through the process they cause destruction and nobody's mad that they cause destruction because you know why they put out the fire and if they get there in time and do their job using the accident hose, spraying the house down, knocking down doors and windows. Guess what happens? You can, they can save the house and people are very thank.
but when it comes to that, here's what happens if you look [00:08:00] at, when it comes to the house being saved, you would never ask the fire department. Once they save the house to rebuild the house with in hose and be like, well, well, no doctor makes no sense. They don't have like tools, education. Yeah. But what happens is this, you need a totally different professional and a carpenter can do that.
And a carpenter can look at the house. The fire department thinks it's wonderful, cuz they saved the house. Carpet's like, it's a freaking. And I gotta rebuild this whole house back up. And if you can just concept that little simple analogy, that's how you have to look at healthcare and why even the natural field fails today, because here's what happens.
If somebody has a heart attack, stroke, diabetes, something where their house is on fire, get my analogy. So let's call medicine. The fire department happens. This they're gonna use their axes and hoses, their drugs and surgery put out the fire and, and it can be very successful. It does cause destruction on the pathway.
Okay. Now, and if they do save that person's life and here's happens, I want you think. Is great. They saved their life. They may cause some destruction by doing it because every drug or every surgery has a negative side effect. But then if they do save their life, cool, you still have a burnt up house that needs rebuilt.
I came along and said, listen, I'm a carpenter doctor. I know what your body [00:09:00] needs. I can figure out what needs it's different for your house. There's no two houses that are saying, and then guess what happens. And when you look at, even when it's happened over the last two years, our, our whole medical system is basically the fire depart.
If even talked like a carpenter, they, they, they kick off social media. I've been kicked off for a long time.
JJ Virgin: I think it it's down a badge of honor.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: I gotta say it's it's I, they kicked me off Facebook, YouTube. I, but here's the point? Well, Patrick and cheese, I know. I know because yes. Yeah. My media gets bigger and bigger because obviously having clinics over the world, people find me our website, but here's the.
So I tell people this. So I'm gonna teach everybody on this podcast from a carpenter standpoint, because natural medicine is nothing more than natural fire department. He, JJ, I've known you for a long time. I guarantee you get this all the time. JJ. I read your book. It's amazing what you, your books are awesome.
I've read every one of them and want you to think about this is what can I take instead of my LIBO thro in natural. Just it's just natural fire department. That's all it is. And it's why it doesn't, it's why it fails. It's why people say, well, doc, I started a natural thing and worked for a little bit, but it doesn't work anymore because your house is continued to RO it needs to [00:10:00] rebuild bolt and you gotta figure out exactly what you need.
So long story short. So my wife, when I told her I wasn't leaving her. Okay. My girlfriend, I wasn't leaving her. And because of my education in immunology and nutrition and chiropractic, I was going, wait, wait, wait, wait. I, I wanna understand that guess what your in endometriosis has a component of estrogen that I want to actually look at.
I said, so I went to all of her fire department doctors, all the doctors she saw, I grabbed all her stuff, all her labs and everything. And that's when it hit me that not only are they misleading women, they're clueless themselves when it comes to hormone. And let me give you an example, JJ, think this way we all know this in general, what is the major hormone that makes a male, a.
JJ Virgin: testosterone.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: Right? Exactly. It's so simple. We know that and we can have free testosterone. We can measure that easy on blood and things of that, but here's what happens now. Another simple question. Okay. What is the major hormone number? We both have all the hormones, male and females have the same hormones, just different levels.
Okay. But what is that [00:11:00] major hormone that makes a woman, a woman?
JJ Virgin: Well, so you would say estrogen, but then better have progesterone for babies. So, alright.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: I'm say estrogen progesterone, the progesterone doesn't develop a woman to where they are. They, it just helps maintain some things. But what if I told you that estrogen is not a hormone that you've been misled?
Wow. And I can prove you. Okay. I know. Trust me, got to your attention now. Didn't I, because here's what happens if you were to jump on the internet right now and, and find estrogen, you cannot find. Actually the term estrogen doesn't even exist itself. The term doesn't because here's what happens. Estrogen is not a hormone.
Estrogen is a term that describes many hormones. And what I realized when it came to women and still to this day, and I've documented millions of labs. And I say millions, I mean, millions of labs. Cause I have offices all over the world and I have doctors in thousands of doctors and some of that that I've trained and done.
And we, I'm a very big data person that. But here's what this is. I realized that when I looked at my wife's stuff, they measured one
JJ Virgin: hormone. [00:12:00] They were looking at all the different estrogens.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: And so what happened is this in 23 years, office is all over docked all over. I've still, never had one woman ever come in and have a complete measurement of all their hormones.
Well then how, if all these hormone diseases and all these IANS, all these psychiatric issues that lead from it that way, how can we make a decision on a woman's body, both physically and psychologically with other complete. So, what I did is I actually, and what was confusing about my wife's condition, her estradiol, which is one of the main cyclic hormones, but they did measure all the other nine was normal on her.
So the medical field's like well, we can't manipulate her estrogen because it's normal. No, no, no, you can't manipulate that one. And so I called so the largest labs in the world, and that's why we got to speak at a seminar together because they wanted me to come and teach in labs. And and I said, I said, listen, can we measure all.
and and they said, yes, but why an insurance doesn't pay for them? And I'm like, I have a sick woman and stuff like that. Let me, and so then I realized [00:13:00] when I started testing them and testing women from all over from all healthcare conditions that not only where their doctors have an incomplete view, the fact that those things being thrown off.
Some of the things that, that the medical profession is doing itself is throwing them off. So they're, they're even giving them endocrine disrupting things like hormone therapy, light bio identicals, like actually birth controls, like all these things depo shots and everything.
JJ Virgin: Yeah. Say what they do on your endometriosis.
Cause I endometriosis and there was never a question as to why I know why bad husband. Yeah.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: well, we, we, we can get into that, but yeah, but I think of this when it comes to causes, but think of this way and I was like, oh my. Then I started to find out all the things like you said, start to cause all those to go off, then start to rebuild like a carpenter and then guess what happened?
I've seen every condition from breast cancer. I endometriosis P OS resolve disintegrate, go back to normal because the body's genetically program for normal. It's not genetically programmed for P C OS and I endometriosis. I don't care what your mother had or your grandmother had. And all the lies that perpetuate to this, you do not get to Jake.
These, your, your genes are meant to keep [00:14:00] you normal, not abnormal.
JJ Virgin: So you discovered that, that there were all of these estrogen hormones and you start digging in this with your wife, because I wanna hear what happened. Like obviously things worked out because you've got four beautiful girls, however, like what was, what, what happened?
And it must have been crazy as you're starting to dig through all of this stuff. Yeah. You know, because even today I hear about endometriosis and they still like, I'm like you guys still Aren. Treating this any different than like give him a depo shot, you know? It's yep.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: Well, and understanding because here's what happens and this is, but I want you to go back my analogy.
The reason why they'll never figure it out is because they're the fire department thinking, right. You know, I'm saying, when I go speak at medical conferences, I literally had a pediatrician run. I walked off the stage. He walked up and said, teach me how to be a carpenter. Because when you are so ingrained into medical fire department, thinking the tools and technology they have will never allow them to figure it out.
See just like this. The tools and technology I have will [00:15:00] never make me a brain surgeon, but I don't wanna be a brain surgeon. I wanna be the best carpenter because here's what happens, everyone in your people and, and that, that listen to your podcast or you speak to, do you understand? There's only one thing that they want, JJ, teach me how to be healthy.
but you can't accomplish health from drugs or surgery. You can't, you can, you can, you can, you can buy some time with some therapy that makes you not die, makes your house don't burn down. See, so, so that's why, that's why you say what doc, you know, you've been saying the same thing for 23 years. Yes.
Because we're dominant in the medical fire department thinking, and I can along say, listen, I'm on carpenter thinking. I can tell you we do everything else that way. And guess what happens? We don't have a problem. But see, but remember they now regulate people that speak like carpenters or even have anything like it that way.
And so all of a sudden, when I got kicked off of YouTube and kicked off Facebook and the FBI showed up my. What I'm saying, you think I'm joking? Not, no,
JJ Virgin: I know you're not joking. I have enough friends who've been going through the same thing. It's yeah. It's it's. Whoever knew that talking about diet and lifestyle would become a crime
Dr. Patrick Flynn: [00:16:00] Yes. Well, well, because someone watched my videos and they felt threatened, never been to one of my doctors, never went to my clinics. I'm like threatened. I'm like, oh my goodness. I'm like, I didn't know that talking about health was actually threatening to people. So, but that being said, I'm cool with.
because you know why, so it doesn't matter what condition you think about if you have a fire department thinking the only thing that's happened now is people said, well, doc, I, I now because of the internet, I understand drug surgery. I don't want that. So what do we have? Natural Uhuh. You'll never figure it out because that's just natural medicine.
Right? And it's why it will always fail. If natural medicine fails just as much as medicine fails long. Stuff. And so that's why you see more supplements sold ever in history. More things sell in history. You got Dr. Oz that says, Hey, buy Ric. And 3000 people buy Ric. And and everybody's trying to sell a product that way.
I'm going Uhuh. You know, something like this without proper testing, you have no clue what a person needs. And, and what I did is I realized back in 1999, that if somebody runs a lab, let me give you an example. If you don't run two labs at the same. [00:17:00] You can never have a complete view of a woman's hormones and still to this day, I've never seen it done besides us.
JJ Virgin: When you say that, what do you mean? Like two labs to make sure there's not lab error? What are you looking at?
Dr. Patrick Flynn: No. No, because here's happens this, you cannot get all the woman's hormones from just blood. You cannot.
JJ Virgin: Okay, so you're doing like blood Sliva urine all at the same time. What are you doing?
Well, never. Here's the other part, Patrick. We're also only getting a snapshot in time. So depending on cycling, not cycling, right? Yes. Which then we've got that whole situation too, which I've
Dr. Patrick Flynn: already mapped out quite well for everybody and stuff. That's that's, like I said, that's a whole, that's a whole, it's a
JJ Virgin: whole other one that is a whole nother one.
And. And yeah, I'm, I'm really looking at redefining all that. Cause I think we've, we're, we're even terming it all wrong, but someone coming in well, so let's, let's take someone coming in who maybe has some P C O S or has had endometriosis, you know, they've got PMs, whatever. And what type of tests then since they're [00:18:00] lucky, if they can even get.
An estradiol lab test. Yeah. Right. Yeah. God forbid. And if I, I, I finally have some alternative places to send them for, for saliva or urine, because you know, then you'll hear all the reasons you shouldn't do that, which is another crazy thing. So what are you having them tested
Dr. Patrick Flynn: for? What are you doing? Well, and I'm gonna caution this with the exception.
If you're testing cortisol, saliva is very inaccurate in so many ways and, and you see the biodentical world do it that way, cuz they're really saturating things that way. So I'll tell you right now, I, with exception of cortisol, never do never do saliva for hormones, very inaccurate and stuff. And I know it's like a gold standard for function medicine, but functional medicine is so wrong.
It's ridiculous. So
JJ Virgin: cortisol and you're doing, when you're doing a cortisol, you're looking at a four with a, with a DHA combo or what are you.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: Yeah, no. Well here put this way. You need to do blood and urine together. Okay. Blood and urine and half. So we're
JJ Virgin: taking cortisol outta the picture for everybody, for how we look
Dr. Patrick Flynn: at.
Oh, actually cortisol actually do cortisol, blood or urine. Both actually really. Okay.
JJ Virgin: Before we talk about the [00:19:00] other hormones, then let's go to cortisol. Then we'll flip over to those. And just, just so people can hear about how to test for these things. Because again, I think most people, if they mention stress to a doctor, they'll get, unless they're, they're going to some of our, you know, enlightened doctors, they're getting a, a.
Cortisol blood test and not even at the right time.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: So right. Yeah. And I would tell people if you're gonna measure cortisol blood, which we always do make sure you do it in the morning because obviously the highest demand is in the morning. So if you are deficient, it's gonna be most chance being low in the morning, afternoon in the evening.
It's very low. So you're gonna get really accurate from doing the four sample urine test that way and stuff and Durham. And it actually COSAL is very accurate within Sliva two. It's just that when you can already have urine, you don't have to double test on it that way. Yeah. That's nice. It is. So that's why.
Cause cause when you look at other estrogens you need urine. It's why, it's why I hear people realize this. The term metabolism is so misunderstood. Okay. And that's why your hormones that show up in urine are called metabolites. Metabolism is not about weight loss. Metabolite is [00:20:00] metabolism is about converting a fat Salba molecule to a water.
So molecule and that's why when wouldn't actually hold, you know, fat, they say my metabolism. No, your conversions get, get the term metabolism outta your head and think about converting. You're not converting things down that way, instead of really digging deep to find out why those conversions aren't happening.
You're sitting there thinking that your metabolism is low. It's actually a conversion issue. So, and that's why metabolite hormones. And that's why if you look at like the most contributing. Breast cancer. Estrogen is actually a four hydroxy Terone mm-hmm. not one skim. That is a metabolite, actually an E three estriol cause most, most doctors.
Oh, wait doc there's E one E two E three, actually you're missing a bunch more. An E three itself is actually a metabolite. It's not really produced by the ovaries or adrenals or fat tissue. It's converted. There's the big mishap, why women's hormones are imbalanced is because they're not looking at all the conversion factors.
They're looking at just some production things. And if productions are normal, high or low, they try to manipulate those. But there's so much more to it.
JJ Virgin: So if you're not [00:21:00] converting well, or if you're converting incorrectly, like, you know, I know if you're, if you're producing too much of the, of what a forest Estron, you can do.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: Let me correct in that, unless you have a tumor, nobody produces too much. That's a big fallacy. You're you? Unless you have a
JJ Virgin: tumor, it's really, it's what you're converting to. It's like
Dr. Patrick Flynn: this. So I want you to predict to this you're ovary produce a certain amount of hormones. So your adrenals, I want you to think about a tub and the tub has seven different drains.
And the reason why hormones can look high is because some of the drains are plugged. AKA doesn't have the sufficient nutrients. Let me say that again, sufficient nutrients. And, and to actually allow those to go down the drain, open up that drain. So it looks like the hormones high. Well, it's only high cuz you're, unless you actually have a, a tumor that or, and a pituitary tumor or a tumor that's producing hormone itself, guess what happens?
You're actually not gonna have high hormones. So it's a, or producing too much. Your body doesn't produce too much. Okay. It's just that actually convert or they can't eliminate. For example, if you have some [00:22:00] GI problems and you're lacking a certain enzyme, and then guess what happens? You can actually, you can actually dump all your estrogens convert 'em properly, but then if you don't have an enzyme in your GI to actually allow it to unpack, as you go out, it'll be reabsorb and your estrogens will be high.
It wasn't a production problem. There's a conversion elimination problem. And so that's the detail women hormone.
JJ Virgin: All right, hold on. We are going to take a quick break and we'll be right back. Stay with me.
Okay. I know that was a total cliff hanger, someone hearing all of this and going all right now, what do I do? Because where are they going to get this information? Where can they go to get this kind of testing? And even if they do get the testing, say from, you know direct to consumer lab company, then they still have to be able to do something with the information.
Right. So what do they do, Patrick?
Dr. Patrick Flynn: I don't have a good answer because as I told you before, I just try to put information out there. But then when they ask me that question, this is the toughest question for, to answer. I'm sorry. [00:23:00] When I started this 23 years ago, nobody taught me this. I figured this out all myself and still this day.
It's why I Havelin over the world and why I've taught thousands of practitioners and doctors and things like that because it's still not practice well. And so I guess one skin, that's why I do have Wells weight clinics everywhere because these doctors are trained highly in this to make sure that they're done the practices are trained highly in it because because I'm very excited, even that what happened last 10 years to I sell people.
Here now that you know this, you can get labs anywhere. You don't need a, you don't even need a doctor or practitioner do it. I'm actually love that directing consumer labs have come out that you can go even on their website and do it or blood, you don't even need to do it through your insurance and everything.
It's just that you're right. You need somebody that can say, okay, listen, here's a direction you need to go. And that's why I tell people really allows us to actually really dig deep and show what that woman needs or needs to do to change those things in order to do it. So I know that's a tough answer to give because.
As I'm kind of women are going well, doc makes so much sense. Oh my goodness. You're right. And to me, there should be standard of care when it comes to women. But when you [00:24:00] have fire department thinking, or you have natural thinking, it's not the way to do it. You know, saying it's like, because you need to be so tested in detail to see which each individual woman has, because I can tell you this, my wife suffered from endometriosis, but you know, in some of this, I've never seen the same exact labs with another woman at endometriosis.
because there is actually different pathways and different things that need to be affected when you do this compared to one skin, they think there's like a standard. And that's why people say, doc, why don't we do any research on like what cruciferous fats do the Rine? Because you know why? Because there's no two endometriosis cases that are saying there isn't and that's why medicine actually in their, even in their treatment for disease is actually mislead.
Double blind clinical studies can never work. If you guys can understand how the body really works.
JJ Virgin: Mm boy. That's a big statement. Oh, yeah, but it makes sense. It makes total, I mean, here's the thing we're going towards personalized medicine, right? That's what everyone's talking about and personalized nutrition and not only is, is, are no two bodies the same, but you're not the same from one moment to the next.
Right. And from one year to the next that's why like, [00:25:00] when I do my. You know, have people go through the Virgin diet and they're like, okay, I'm done. I'm like, no, you're not done because you're not gonna be the same in a year. And , you know, so this isn't like a one time you're done. You don't ever have to revisit this.
This is a one time of information on how you are right now.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: What do you want me to throw a monkey wrench into that one? Watch this. Yeah, let's go ahead. Watch this. Your, everything you said was so correct, but let me throw a little monkey wrench into this. And this is how personalized a woman's health cast be, especially of their cyclic ladies.
You change every week, your exercise, your nutrition and everything are very different week by week for. See, and that's where, and see when I actually, I never realized when I put out a, a a chart years ago, it got like 50 million shares because, and I'm talking on the internet because I really realized that a cyclical woman's hormones changed four times in a, but
JJ Virgin: here's.
Every woman listening, whether they're currently cycling or not knows that that like would say truth because they feel it. Every single woman has gone through. I don't [00:26:00] feel like going to the gym today. I don't feel like a hard workout. No man. Today I can bust it. I can lift more than that dude, over there.
Like, you know, the differences in how your mood is, how your sleep is, how. Energy is how your focus, like there's no question your level of hunger, what you're hungry for, you know, and,
Dr. Patrick Flynn: and it's all ally controlled and see, that's why people are doc, you're a male talking about this. Yes. Because I was put in a situation for, you've got for no
JJ Virgin: better answers and a wife, I think you can probably see.
And here's the other part, I mean, this is, this is for women listening. I, I think the single best thing is when a woman goes through menopause, it's like, this is the greatest thing ever. Like, it's fantastic. That's why I say just, you know, I know you can't rush that one, but once you're there just, it's gonna be sliding sliding in.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: great. I literally got interviewed two hours ago for a big podcast in England, and it's really funny. And I had to tell her, I said, guys, you understand, and this will never happen in the us with fire department thinking, but I think about this actually, it's easier to keep a woman healthier menopause is when they're cyclic.
And that's why the [00:27:00] term Cougar did not come from a cyclic. It really didn't and stuff, because the hormones of a menopausal woman are very similar to a guy's hormones. And that's a whole nother topic that way.
JJ Virgin: Well, I meant that the bonding, that's what I remember reading one about how women, once they go through menopause have lower oxytocin.
So they will, there'll be more like a Cougar and, and the guys testosterone tends to go lower. And now all of a sudden they're behaving more like a woman and it's like, wow, this is
Dr. Patrick Flynn: actually the only reason why men's testosterone are getting lower. Is because of all the doctors that been taken care of, you know what I'm saying?
It has nothing to do. Cuz my, my, my testosterone I'm 47 years old at 8 46. I can show you guys testosterone in the eighties and nineties under our care. There are seven hundreds I think is teenage levels. It's just that our current system that take care of people actually allows them to get sick and let their house rod out.
And guess what happens. So they have hormone replacement therapy for you also biodentical and I think in one skin in ladies, I'll make it very clear. If you have ovaries or uterus that, or you have ovaries, you should never take a biodentical and I have to give out bios [00:28:00] if you had a full hysterectomy. So this whole movement of bios is actually only gonna hurt people, too.
If it's not done right. So,
JJ Virgin: yep. So you just plop that loaded one out there? Oh yeah, of course. Let's, let's unpack that. That'll be our last big thing is unpack the cuz it is a big question we get, obviously I get that all the time bio to, to bio identically replaced or not. So if you're gonna say a bombshell like that, then someone.
So what do they do? I.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: So, especially if you think of this way, okay. Let's come back to this. I'm a carpenter. Okay. Think about hormones like a fuel tank. So you have, and, and what happens is this is, yes. It's very easy to jump on a lab and say, my testosterone's low. Let's do a male identical pellet. Okay.
Which is horrible because it's gonna create a negative feedback loop. Especially actually, a guy actually is gonna end up with the major problems over time with that. But same thing happens with females and on top of it, if you do, and, and actually even when. Menopausal. It's very, even easier to produce hormone production to your level because you need less.[00:29:00]
But on top of it, you can get your adrenals in your fat tissue to make it much easier than X your ovaries. And then when you have your ovaries, what you're now doing is this when you give it biodentical. You have your ovaries. You're creating that not only negative feedback that allows that follicle not to develop, but you're gonna end up some ovarian problems where that follicle actually is gonna have some things that can cause a negative effect to your body.
And that's the part that they don't wanna talk about or gonna do, because they say, well, doc sudden I took some progesterone and I felt so much better Uhhuh, but just like what happens in all this stuff? I've always said this, and this is why medicine will never understand it. I want you to think of your body, like a Swiss watch all the gears interact.
And that's why you even see the massive negative side effects from. To from bios. And here's what happens about your integrated practitioners that do pellets and other things I have, I've got thousands upon thousands lab where they're overdosing these people and they're causing cancers because even it's bio or not gotta remember bios are not your normal hormones.
They're much harder to actually to actually eliminate outta your body. So, therefore I don't care if it comes from a plant source. I don't care. You say doc, but [00:30:00] you even said you've had to give them. Yes, I have had to give them because of full hysterectomies, but then you have to be very careful to make sure that the other parts of your body, that eliminate those things are in such good shape, that you can even eliminate those.
And most women that need hormone are already sole ill, bad liver, bad hormone conversions that when they take bio identicals, their body don't even prepped to even deal with them. So even if you wanted to use them, you better get your body in a hell of a shape to be able to actually cause those drains to move out.
Otherwise those things are even a little more difficult to eliminate and you're gonna cause health problems in other tissues, including breasts and other things that can lead to major health problems.
JJ Virgin: So if someone did wanted to get more information on, cause I think, you know, This idea of, of checking your drains yep.
Is so obvious and it's not out there and it's a lab, you know, it's a lab. So what is it? The Dutch like which lab is it?
Dr. Patrick Flynn: Yeah, I would say Dutch is probably the best Genova does the same thing that way and stuff like that. And it's like there's other labs, obviously, I, those are my two favorite. I'd say Dutch is [00:31:00] probably the expert in the field, right?
And stuff. And yeah, I had a, I had a
JJ Virgin: girlfriend who had a hysterectomy and they never checked anything. They just gave her hysterectomy and I'm like, well, wait a minute. Like they didn. Do a Dutch test or anything on you, which first was the next step she did to find out what was really going on.
Cause I was like, you just pulling that out. Ain't gonna fix anything here, but
Dr. Patrick Flynn: remember, remember you also wanna get blood done too, because remember just doing Dutch is an incomplete view. Just doing blood is in king of view. And that's where I differ so much. I will never. Make a judgment on a woman's body without the proper testing to work their stuff out.
And the sad part is this. Even if in people do, is they dabble a bit? Well, let's just run a Dutch. Okay. You're testing ate. Let's run the blood. No, no, no. That's how, that's how intricate the, the female body is. And that's why we still have, we still have the Dutch, we still have all the other things. We still have all Naro medical things and without it done, right, women still one skin are all suffering at such a high level.
And I hate to say this. I started. In green bay, Wisconsin, where my major corporate offices with $500, I was a poor [00:32:00] country kid that had a good idea and built into international company and be able to speak on some of the biggest medical and natural art stages in the world. Because why, because I'm not a speaker, I'm not a podcaster.
I'm actually someone that says. I sat there crossed toe to toe. And my main thing was fertility. And one outta the three couples right now still have a problem having, having children. And I said, oh, it's getting worse.
JJ Virgin: It's not gonna get, it's not getting better.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: Which you said, yeah, we have more natural medical things.
I know I keep up bringing it up because the idea, if the thinking does not change from the fire department, thinking to a carpenter type thinking. You'll just, we'll have more super foods and more new products and more, you know, and it's really funny and you wanna know the best super food on the planet still to this day.
And here's what happens this, because I love the natural world. They're always looking for some major Berry in the cane fields of Africa or Indian, all it's bull crap and stuff like that. But you know, what is a universal? I remember nutrition is my background. You know what still is the number one superfood that's still overlooked.
And if you want to change your health automatically, you can do it right for this podcast. Get back to your organ [00:33:00] meat. Eat your ovaries, eat your thyroid, eat your liver, eat your kidneys, eat your brain, eat all this stuff. This, because that, if you look across the. Has been in every culture across the world.
That's your real, super food. There is no vegetable that can even compete with an organ meat.
JJ Virgin: Well, it is interesting. If you look back at, at all, I was doing a, a podcast about just cultural, each eating. And if you look back at all of the. Older cultures and how they ate and what, how far that is away from where we are, you know, between fermented foods and organ meats and all the rest we've really gotten far away from it, which brings me up to what you're giving to all of our listeners.
So you explain, explain our, then the segue into, okay. You're giving everyone free, healthy desserts. Yep.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: Well, yeah, because here's op is this and I, and I wanna, I wanna, I want to, I really recently had my show last week. It's really sad because I love statistics. Overall in general men's test levels have dropped dramatically, even teenage levels, even twenties.
And [00:34:00] so that then what happens this, and I would tell you by, and I will make a general statement, but I can prove this with all the data and spending my own labs. I've got, like I said, millions of labs. We can, we can just even pull up and show you different things. But I want to think about this is if you look at how hormones work testosterone.
Okay. The number one thing that actually affects male hormones are going down is actually sugar. It's actually glucose. Oh, that makes you so happy to hear you stimulate the, you stimulate the aromatase and it converts it into estrogens. Now, guess what? It's why one out of every hundred guys right now, one outta every hundred breast cancer cases are all men.
You didn't hear about that 20, 30 years. And here's why. And so we need to actually do certain things. And so I said, listen, Get men off of sugar, reduce women's mental stress and hormone levels will change. It really will. Now, obviously there's much more detail to that, but we only got so much time, but ideas this.
And so I had, but, you know, I
JJ Virgin: love the big rocks. Like tho those are big rocks that, and, and they make a huge, they make a huge. Huge difference. It's the little Hinch big door thing. I [00:35:00] mean, just that, like, you know, I, when I wrote that book on sugar, which seriously, Patrick, I wasn't, I go, I don't wanna write a book on sugar because I didn't have any sugar.
Like my birth mom. I, I was raised my adopted mom. It's a massive sweet tooth, raised me on pop tarts and cinnamon rolls and dessert after every meal. And, and I was like, I don't really like sugar, so I didn't understand the sweet tooth until until, until I wrote Virgin diet. And everyone's like, we, we can't quit sugar.
I'm like really? So gosh, you just, when I started to dig into all the research on that book, I go, gosh, if we just. Just like the statistics are so clear on sugar. It's unbelievable. I mean, only even worse than that are artificial sweeteners, but you know, which I can't even believe are allowed, but that's
Dr. Patrick Flynn: well remember that, that that's governing politics and stuff of that, which is really sad and right.
JJ Virgin: Okay. Anyway, back over to your healthy desserts cookbook
Dr. Patrick Flynn: yeah. So I see it's a free book that way, where people can actually start to move that way, because even you look at at PC OS, you know, if you look at it's kind of funny, do you know the number one [00:36:00] medication they give for PC? Metformin Metformin.
Yeah, exactly. Because you know why that increase of blood sugar actually causes the hormones convert to DHT, which is 10 times more potent than Testo self, which leads to women's actually producing massive CYT and everything. And once again PS is all time high and you look at a woman, go, you look at a woman, come these people, what people say, doc, I PS if I don't get tested, what's one thing I do stop all your sugar.
Oh, I can't do that. Then. Guess what? Then just get prepared for your surgeries and all things later in the medical. Oh, I don't want that, but here's the cool thing this you
JJ Virgin: can't have now you can have your cake because
Dr. Patrick Flynn: that's your cookbook. Well, you can eat a cook. Yeah. If you actually use the decent sweeteners that don't affect your
JJ Virgin: well, there's really some, there's so many great alternatives now that there weren't before.
Gosh, when you know, I first started doing this, we had to go hunt down in the Asian part and find coconut milk. And there was no.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: When I started, when I started practice in 1999, we get this, this is how crazy that people have to think about this. We had to go to a health food store. And you basically got [00:37:00] rice milk.
Okay. And it tastes like crappy water. Okay. Now get this. And I want you to think about this guys. They had health food stores because most of the stores were filled the. Do you understand that people are behind the ball? Do you understand that 99% of the things in grocery stores today? I wouldn't feed my cat.
You know why? Cause I love cat even like the
JJ Virgin: healthy grocery stores. I won't name names.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: Oh, health foods, whole foods, 90%. Not their, so yeah, you go ahead. I,
JJ Virgin: but you walk in and you're like, okay. So all you've done is put agave in place of fi toast, corn syrup, and it's, it's horrible. Worse. It's horrible for you.
You know, or apple juice concentrate. That one drives me so crazy that, that they put on the label, no sugar added and use apple juice concentrate, and that they're giving it in the WIC program to these little kids, you know, and wondering why kids have type two IB. It just drives me nuts. So, okay. So you've got your free, healthy cookbook.
We are gonna put this at jjvirgin.com/wellnessway. Makes it easy wellness way I looked through, it looked super yummy, so great. And I think that's [00:38:00] important. Gosh, the last two years showed us anything. People don't know how to cook and it's, there's so many E they looked easy, delicious, which I like both those things.
Anything we can do to make things easy. Fantastic. Yep. So I'm trying to real good habits. You just dropped a lot of bombs. , it's been great. And hopefully I get to see you in person here soon. We won't let it go. Another what? Eight years? Yes.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: Be a while. Yeah.
JJ Virgin: So thank you. I super appreciate your time.
Dr. Patrick Flynn: Thank you, JJ. Thanks for having on today.
JJ Virgin: All right. I promised you a big shift in the way you think. And I think that we delivered here and I've got it locked in my brain now of be the carpenter. Be the carpenter. Is this carpenter thinking or firemen thinking? And again, you know, the firemen helped me rescue my son and save his life and I am forever, forever indebted.
And then it became very clear once we got past the acute phase of that. I needed, I, he [00:39:00] needed a lot of carpenters and then we went to work. So I totally get this. It makes so much sense. And I'm thankful that we got to have this time with Dr. Patrick Flynn today. And again, JJvirgin.com/wellnessway to grab that yummy cookbook that we talked about.
And a reminder, if you've not yet subscribed, remember to subscribe. So you never miss. A single episode.


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