JJ: [00:00:00] [00:00:03] I’m JJ Virgin, [00:00:06] PhD dropout, sorry mom, turned four [00:00:09] time New York Times best selling author. Yes, I’m a [00:00:12] certified nutrition specialist, fitness hall of famer, and [00:00:15] I speak at health conferences and trainings around the globe, [00:00:18] but I’m driven by my insatiable curiosity and [00:00:21] love of science to keep asking questions, digging for [00:00:24] answers, and sharing the information I uncover with as [00:00:27] many people as I can.

And that’s why I created the [00:00:30] Well Beyond 40 podcast to [00:00:33] synthesize and simplify the science of health into [00:00:36] actionable strategies to help you thrive. In each [00:00:39] episode, we’ll talk about what’s working in the world of wellness [00:00:42] from personalized nutrition and healing your metabolism to [00:00:45] healthy aging and prescriptive fitness.

Join [00:00:48] me on the journey to better health so you can love how you [00:00:51] look and feel right now and have the energy to play [00:00:54] full out. [00:00:57] I am super [00:01:00] excited to welcome Mark Sisson back [00:01:03] to the podcast. Full disclosure, [00:01:06] Mark is actually my oldest friend, not that he’s old, [00:01:09] but my oldest friend in the fitness industry.

We have [00:01:12] literally known each other for a long time. [00:01:15] 35 possibly even longer [00:01:18] years from the early days in LA. And, you know, when we [00:01:21] talk about it, we were like, I think [00:01:24] Mark, me, Body by Jake and Tony [00:01:27] Horton were probably the first personal trainers back before there [00:01:30] was a name for it. It’s so crazy. It was fun.

[00:01:33] We were recently in a dinner in Miami because he [00:01:36] moved to Miami from California with [00:01:39] Shaleen Johnson, who moved from California [00:01:42] to Miami as well. Talking about like, [00:01:45] what has gone on in the fitness industry? [00:01:48] And part of that, and you’ll hear in this interview is, [00:01:51] okay, what’s going on in the fitness industry and now what are we [00:01:54] doing differently?

Like what’s, what are some of the [00:01:57] changes, especially as we are now not in our 20s [00:02:00] anymore, and we’re all looking to do what Dr. Peter [00:02:03] Atiyah talks about, that centenarian decathlon, thinking [00:02:06] about the things we want to be able to do in our [00:02:09] 60s and 70s and 80s. Mark is now 70. [00:02:12] So we’ve adjusted a few things and we’ll be [00:02:15] talking about what Mark has [00:02:18] shifted and also what he’s super passionate about [00:02:21] now that could really change the world.

[00:02:24] Enhance strength, reduce pain. You’ll [00:02:27] hear all about it in the interview. I know it’s a tease. It’s a tease. [00:02:30] Um, we’re also going to talk about what are the important things to [00:02:33] measure because I love, you know, measuring things, what you measure and [00:02:36] monitor you can improve. But for us, as we age, what [00:02:39] do we want to be measuring and monitoring that [00:02:42] can reduce our risk of all cause mortality, [00:02:45] all the different ways that we could die, and more importantly, improve [00:02:48] not just our lifespan, but really focus on our [00:02:51] health span.

And [00:02:54] there is something that’s just not done very often that can make [00:02:57] a huge impact. We’ll chat about that [00:03:00] as well. We will have a very cool guide [00:03:03] from Mark that you can get at jjvirgin. com [00:03:06] forward slash barefoot. So be sure to [00:03:09] check that out and I will be right back with my buddy, [00:03:12] Mark Sisson.[00:03:15]

Mark [00:03:18] Sisson, what is this third, fourth, fifth time on the [00:03:21] show?

Mark Sisson: Uh, third, maybe fourth. I don’t know. It feels [00:03:24] like a while, but I thought you’re going to say it’s the third, fourth, or fifth decade [00:03:27] that we’ve known, that we’ve known each other. [00:03:30] Yes, right. Wait, no, it’s third. No, fourth decade, fourth decade.

Anything [00:03:33] after 30 years is the fourth decade. Is that [00:03:36] crazy? That is really [00:03:39]

JJ: I know it is. It was weird. We were out at dinner [00:03:42] last night and we’re sitting there with you and me and Chalene [00:03:45] and I’m like, holy smokes, like here [00:03:48] we are, but you know, it’s cool. We all look awesome. [00:03:51] Yes. You know? Yeah. And we all look fit.

And I think one of [00:03:54] the interesting things is how we’ve changed what we [00:03:57] do over the years. It’s kind of like [00:04:00] the, uh, I wish I’d known, you know, Now [00:04:03] then what I know now, of course, however, I wouldn’t have done like the [00:04:06] things you do in your twenties, your body sticker.

Mark Sisson: Yeah.

JJ: [00:04:09] And so I think an interesting place to start is now how old are you [00:04:12] now?

I’m 70. That’s what I thought. I’m like, is [00:04:15] he really 70? Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Mark Sisson: [00:04:18] Yeah, it’s, it’s, that’s mind blowing to me.

JJ: It, it’s mind blowing to [00:04:21] me. Yeah. You know? I mean, when I first [00:04:24] met you, I guess you must’ve been

Mark Sisson: early thirties.

JJ: Yeah. [00:04:27] Yeah. I was early twenties. Yeah. Okay. [00:04:30] That’s crazy. So here you are [00:04:33] early seventies.

And I [00:04:36] know that you probably have changed some things over the years. I mean, when I [00:04:39] met you, you were like endurance king. Yes. [00:04:42] And I was always weights queen. You were endurance king. [00:04:45] Um, so what do you do now? [00:04:48] Like, what did you change in your routine over the [00:04:51] years? Because you’re aging really well. Like, look at you.

Mark Sisson: [00:04:54] Well,

JJ: super fit.

Mark Sisson: Appreciate that. And, and I think, [00:04:57] um, right now I’m fit for life. Um, I [00:05:00] was, uh, fit for competition when we [00:05:03] knew each other originally, you know, in, in, in my late twenties, [00:05:06] early thirties, I was an endurance king, as you would [00:05:09] say. And, and I was a marathoner and then I turned into a traffic [00:05:12] and, uh, did that for years and was always, [00:05:15] uh, had to have that, uh, that [00:05:18] feeling of exhausting myself every single [00:05:21] workout.

And it was really, it’s a bit of a [00:05:24] sickness. Now, the good news is I developed [00:05:27] a strong cardio respiratory [00:05:30] fitness that served me well into my later [00:05:33] decades. I [00:05:36] recognized fairly early on in my thirties or forties that [00:05:39] that amount of, of stress on my joints [00:05:42] in order to try and Push the heart [00:05:45] every single day, uh, was not going to, [00:05:48] was not going to serve me.

So I cut back on the amount of miles I [00:05:51] was doing. I stopped running entirely. Like literally I haven’t run [00:05:54] a mile in 30 years. So when, when did you start to [00:05:57] notice this? How old were you? So I was in my forties. [00:06:00] Um, initially I got injured. And [00:06:03] that was a big red flag to me. Like, okay, [00:06:06] I’m only in my late twenties, early thirties, and now I’m injured.

[00:06:09] And I’m not going to be able to compete at the level that I was used to ever [00:06:12] again. Uh, this was arthritis and tendonitis and a [00:06:15] lot of things that were, that were overuse injuries. So you [00:06:18] can’t, you can’t train at that level. and [00:06:21] hope to surpass a level of [00:06:24] fitness and overcome those sorts of injuries.

Those injuries then are [00:06:27] caused by the training. So I cut back on the training, [00:06:30] started lifting more weights, I cut out sugars, I started [00:06:33] looking into the diet, which, you know, that informed the rest of [00:06:36] my career. My, my career after the age of 35 [00:06:39] was all about, um, you know, the primal blueprint and [00:06:42] finding ways in which we could become lean and fit and [00:06:45] strong and happy and healthy and productive without.[00:06:48]

All of this pain and suffering and sacrifice, you know, what were the, [00:06:51] what are the hidden, hidden genetic switches that we all [00:06:54] have? And so I shifted more toward, [00:06:57] uh, I would, what I would say more efficient, effective [00:07:00] types of training, which was no more, not a lot of mileage, [00:07:03] but more weightlifting, real specific training for [00:07:06] joints, range of motion, mobility.[00:07:09]

Resilience, being able to come back from a [00:07:12] workout, not beat up, but be able to go. Was that [00:07:15] mentally hard for you? Really hard. No, it was almost, it took me [00:07:18] five years after I, after I quit. [00:07:21] Um, competing at a high level, I still [00:07:24] coached for 10 years and even while I was coaching, I [00:07:27] trained with my athletes the same way, right?

Yes. And, [00:07:30] and so I would go out and do, I was training world class for athletes. [00:07:33] And while I wasn’t as fit as they were to, [00:07:36] to race at that level, I could do the workouts that they [00:07:39] did once in a while. You know, the, the thing about, [00:07:42] Rain training at that level is you can you have to do those workouts [00:07:45] every single day But I still have the ability to do those workouts [00:07:48] once in a while and then take three days to recover obviously [00:07:51] So I can still do the work.

So I still had it in my mind that i’m up [00:07:54] there I could still I could hop in a race. I really wanted to [00:07:57] I can hop in a race. I can, I could win my age group. I could, [00:08:00] you know, so that lingered for another five [00:08:03] years. So it did take a long time for me to get [00:08:06] that kind of thing out of my mind. And that it’s almost like a [00:08:09] sickness.

It’s almost like an anorexic type [00:08:12] effect. Like you, like you’re trying to [00:08:15] exert control over your body by doing something [00:08:18] every day that’s so tough that no one else could do [00:08:21] it. And then you can come back and do it again the next day and the next day and the [00:08:24] next day. So it’s, it’s. Again, it’s a bit of a, [00:08:27] of a, of a psychological issue [00:08:30] that you have to overcome.

But once that [00:08:33] leaves, once, once I got that out of my mind. [00:08:36] The good news was it never came back. It was, and if [00:08:39] people say, yeah, cause I’m pretty fit now and people say, you should, [00:08:42] you should race. You should start racing again. You should, I’m like, no way. [00:08:45] I lost that mojo so [00:08:48] long ago. And the few times that [00:08:51] I’ve thought about getting back into the ring and, and [00:08:54] competing, you know, I do two days of training.

I’m [00:08:57] like, no, this is, this is, I don’t want to do this [00:09:00] anymore. This was a part of my life that, that I’m very [00:09:03] thankful that I did and I’m very thankful I left it [00:09:06] behind. And the lessons that I learned, you fight, know, then what I [00:09:09] know now, the lessons that I learned were [00:09:12] such that I want to, I want to, now I want longevity.

I want to be [00:09:15] able to, to be fit and look fit and, and [00:09:18] be healthy and look healthy for as long as I [00:09:21] can. And that’s what really informs my workouts [00:09:24] now. So long winded answer, like what do I do [00:09:27] differently? So now my workout week, [00:09:30] I do two days in the gym. So today was my. [00:09:33] Cardio day. So today I did an hour and a half, [00:09:36] um, hard ride on a fat [00:09:39] tire bike in the sand on [00:09:42] a beach.

JJ: Yeah, that does not appeal. And [00:09:45]

Mark Sisson: while it does not sound appealing when I describe [00:09:48] it like that, it’s, you know, you’re out in nature. The [00:09:51] view is great. There’s all people walking along the [00:09:54] You know, um, you’re, you’re getting the sort of negative [00:09:57] ions from the ocean breeze. So now what it looks like is [00:10:00] two days a week in the gym, uh, one day, probably a week of this [00:10:03] hard bike ride, um, one, one day a week of standup [00:10:06] paddling.

And so I do that in the bay here an [00:10:09] hour hard. I don’t go with anyone else cause I want to, I want to be in the [00:10:12] zone. It’s meditative for me and I’m hanging out. [00:10:15] Like the last time I went last week, like a 500 pound [00:10:18] manatee just below me, just, you [00:10:21] know,

JJ: we have, we’ll go out in the canal to do this [00:10:24] and literally dolphins are with us.

This is [00:10:27] wild. You know, you do it in California and you’re like, [00:10:30] Is that a shark?

Mark Sisson: So, so you [00:10:33] get, that’s the nature part of it. And the point [00:10:36] is I’m, and then one day, two days a week now, when I, [00:10:39] when I would have normally said, okay, I have to do something, you have to work [00:10:42] out something today and how do I fit it into the, [00:10:45] to the overall scheme of things?

I’ll just go to the gym and I’ll literally stretch [00:10:48] for an hour and I’ll just. You know, just easy [00:10:51] stretching, uh, dead hangs, uh, things that I never [00:10:54] would have done and never would have thought [00:10:57] are important. But all of a sudden, as I, as I am [00:11:00] getting older, and as I get out of bed in the morning and things are starting [00:11:03] to creak and be stiff, I want [00:11:06] that, I want that mobility.

And flexibility [00:11:09] and resilience along with the strength and the [00:11:12] cardiovascular fitness.

JJ: Have you done the, um, the [00:11:15] stand to sit to stand test?

Mark Sisson: Uh, [00:11:18] without, without the, without the, without the hands? Yeah. [00:11:21] Yeah, I can’t do that.

JJ: I have the cameraman on me and, uh, you know, I’ve [00:11:24] got the knee replacement, hip replacement from all those old [00:11:27] injuries of beating myself up, um, [00:11:30] early in my 20s.

And, um, [00:11:33] There I am. I go, okay, so let’s just record this. And this [00:11:36] is where you stand with your feet crossed [00:11:39] and you deduct a point for any time you have to use a, an [00:11:42] appendage. So I’m like going [00:11:45] down and I go, boom, I’m [00:11:48] like, I’m pretty sure that’s doesn’t count. We just crashed to [00:11:51] the floor, but trying to get up.

Off the floor with your [00:11:54] feet crossed. I’m like, how on earth is someone able to do that?

Mark Sisson: I [00:11:57] mean, I mean, I think it’s, you train for it. And that’s the metric that [00:12:00] I’ve heard. Like if you’re over 50, [00:12:03] you can do one down, one up and you still are [00:12:06] good. Yeah. Um, and, and I could easily get, [00:12:09] get off the ground with one, one hand.

So that’s, that’s a [00:12:12] nothing thing. But, um, but I’m also, again, as you, as you [00:12:15] get older, like I have this Peter Ortega has this list, [00:12:18] what do you call it, the centenary decathlon. That so

JJ: [00:12:21] resonated with me. Yeah,

Mark Sisson: yeah, so I wrote this list of [00:12:24] things down that I want to do. Oh, so a lot of [00:12:27] things are like a minute and a half dead hang, [00:12:30] right, just hanging from a bar.

JJ: Tell people why that’s important, [00:12:33] because you’d hear that and go, why would I want to hang from a bar? You know, it’s

Mark Sisson: [00:12:36] just, uh, it’s just one metric of, [00:12:39] um, of resilience of the joints [00:12:42] and flexibility and grip strength. It’s mostly grip [00:12:45] strength.

JJ: Which by the way, I’m sure you’ve seen that research where they [00:12:48] looked at 2 million people and people with poor [00:12:51] grip strength had the highest all cause mortality that in VO2max.[00:12:54]

Mark Sisson: They say that the grip strength is the proxy [00:12:57] for that. I’m going to, you know, [00:13:00] uh. Be to differ on that because I think certainly VO two max [00:13:03] is a much better proxy. Yeah. Yeah. But you can’t test as [00:13:06] easily

JJ: Well, you do, you do all of those like Yeah, you do a v VO two max. [00:13:09] Uh, I just was, did an interview with Andy [00:13:12] Galman, he’s like, link leg strength, which I think we [00:13:15] really have to focus on.

Yeah. Um, but VO two [00:13:18] max mean you can still do, I did a predicted one. I have to go do the [00:13:21] real one. I just don’t want

Mark Sisson: to, and I’m, and I’m training right [00:13:24] now to do a real one because I, I, I, because I wrote, I [00:13:27] wrote this list down. Yeah. So the, so the dead hang. Um, I [00:13:30] want to be able to stand, uh, with my arms crossed, [00:13:33] um, eyes closed on one leg for [00:13:36] 30 seconds on each, on each foot.

JJ: Can’t you do that [00:13:39] now?

Mark Sisson: You try it with your, no, you can do it like this, [00:13:42] but, but if, but if you do it with your, with your, with your eyes closed [00:13:45] and your arms, we should, [00:13:48] we should do it. We’ll do it after the show. Do you do [00:13:51] yoga? No. See,

JJ: yoga?

Mark Sisson: Yeah.

JJ: Like, and I. [00:13:54] I will tell you, I hate every minute of it and watch the [00:13:57] clock, but what it makes you do [00:14:00] is all of that balance stuff that is so [00:14:03] horrible and hard.

And so I think I probably could beat [00:14:06] you on this one.

Mark Sisson: Okay. So we’ll, okay. All [00:14:09] right. Okay. So we’re going to try this. We’re going to try this, but, but, [00:14:12] um, the, so, so 30, cause what they’ll [00:14:15] say is if you’re, if you’re 60 or 70, like [00:14:18] it’s, it’s five seconds. So if you can, if you do [00:14:21] five seconds on each foot, Then you’re in the [00:14:24] percentage top percentage.

Yeah, it’s ridiculous. [00:14:27] Yeah. So, so then, um, I want to be able to [00:14:30] deadlift one and a half times my body weight [00:14:33] 10 times. I want to be able to bench press my body weight [00:14:36] 10 times. Um, I want to be able to, [00:14:39] um, uh, Remain in zone [00:14:42] four on a bike for an hour. Tell people what zone four [00:14:45] is. So, you know, there’s five training zones.

Zone [00:14:48] one is basically, you know, rest, rest up to a [00:14:51] slow walk. Zone two is what every, all of the [00:14:54] guys are a little breath and you can, you, you’re working out, but you can still [00:14:57] carry on a conversation. Zone three becomes, you know, you’re a little [00:15:00] bit out of breath. Um, you know, zone four is basically a [00:15:03] race pace.

If you’re racing an hour plus or [00:15:06] minus, and then zone five is high end. [00:15:09] It’s up to your max heart rate, so you can’t [00:15:12] exceed zone five. So I want to do that on a, [00:15:15] uh, you know, uh, on a bike. Um, [00:15:18] I’ve got, uh, uh, you know, [00:15:21] what are some of the other things? Oh, plank, three minute plank. [00:15:24] Yeah, but I’m just saying, no, no, I want to keep [00:15:27] at it.

I want to, And for me, I’m not, I’m not [00:15:30] saying I want to, this is a, this is a [00:15:33] goal list as much as it’s, this is what I either can [00:15:36] do or want to be able to do or should be able to do based on my current [00:15:39] training. Like I should be able to do all those based on my current training [00:15:42] right now. Okay. So that AE and that.[00:15:45]

We’ll see, we’ll see what 80 looks like. I mean, we’ll see, but at 80, [00:15:48] but I just want to, I just want to get my baseline of [00:15:51] really exceptional stuff at 70. Like I [00:15:54] want a VO2 max of 45. I’m

JJ: going to ask you [00:15:57] where

Mark Sisson: we’re going. I’m going for 45.

JJ: And this is [00:16:00] the reason that these are all important. When he talks about the centenary [00:16:03] of the cap on, it’s like picking up your grandkids, running up the [00:16:06] stairs, you know, doing these things that we don’t even [00:16:09] think about at all.

And I always tell people, I’m like. You go [00:16:12] do the leg press so you do not have to call your husband to get off the [00:16:15] toilet.

Mark Sisson: Yes.

JJ: I never want to be that

Mark Sisson: person

JJ: [00:16:18] ever.

Mark Sisson: Yeah. I made a, I, I, I set a goal [00:16:21] years ago. So like, like, uh, one of my [00:16:24] life goals is I want to be able to, um, [00:16:27] beat my seven year old grandchild [00:16:30] in a hundred yard Dash.[00:16:33]

So my granddaughter’s, um, four now. So in [00:16:36] three years when I’m 73 mm-Hmm. . And she’s seven. Am I [00:16:39] gonna be able to beat her in a, you know, in a hundred yard dash? And is [00:16:42] she aware of this? No, she’s not. Can’t I can’t, I can’t ever have her [00:16:45] train now. . I know she can’t be sneak training on me. [00:16:48]

JJ: Yeah, to start do some dancing or something.

Mark Sisson: Right, right.

JJ: [00:16:51] Bring it on.

Mark Sisson: Yeah, yeah.

JJ: Yeah, so when do you start [00:16:54] the Mark Staley Apple thing and really get deep into the [00:16:57] nutrition side of things and start to shift?

Mark Sisson: Well, I started, uh, Mark [00:17:00] Staley Apple in 2006 and it was, it was basically because I [00:17:03] was selling supplements at the time and I, I had been on television [00:17:06] and had a successful television business, uh, [00:17:09] direct to consumer.

Uh, and then with, [00:17:12] with the advent of the internet, And with, uh, [00:17:15] 300 dish and direct [00:17:18] television broadcast channels, things got tough for direct [00:17:21] selling on television. Um, and [00:17:24] operators were no longer standing by to take your [00:17:27] calls. Yes. So I, I created [00:17:30] March Daily Apple in 2006 as a platform, [00:17:33] uh, to espouse my, uh, you know, [00:17:36] ideas on, on, uh, Fitness and health and diet and exercise and all the [00:17:39] things that I feel like I have a strong background in [00:17:42] and, um, and it took off.

Pretty, [00:17:45] pretty quickly within a few years, it was the number one ancestral [00:17:48] blog of its kind in the world. Uh, and then I [00:17:51] wrote, uh, the primal blueprint, which is my [00:17:54] seminal book on putting all of those ideas that, [00:17:57] you know, millions of words of blog posts [00:18:00] together into that, into that book. I was a carb [00:18:03] centric guy for a long time.

And I, I read all of the research. I mean, [00:18:06] um, there were most of the books [00:18:09] of the day were continuing to, [00:18:12] uh, argue that carbohydrate. Management was [00:18:15] the, was the key to successful athletics. [00:18:18] Well, then it shifted over the years and I, and I realized [00:18:21] because I wasn’t training as much that I didn’t need to eat.

[00:18:24] And [00:18:27] then I started [00:18:30] adding more fat to my diet and realizing fat is not the end of beef. [00:18:33] So one of the things you learn, I learned, and this is part of [00:18:36] my journey, was that, um, [00:18:39] endurance, endurance pursuits, like [00:18:42] whether it’s running or cycling or, um, [00:18:45] aerobics classes, they’re all catabolic. [00:18:48] They’re catabolic.

They burn, they burn [00:18:51] glucose. Primarily not a lot of fat, [00:18:54] and then they burn muscle tissue. They, they cannibalize muscle tissue, [00:18:57] which is the reason that even though, uh, I was a [00:19:00] top marathon runner, so I lifted weights [00:19:03] aggressively. Like I was the, I was the biggest marathoner [00:19:06] in my group. I was five ambitious FI [00:19:09] was the biggest marathoner in my group, and I was five, ten, a [00:19:12] hundred and thirty eight pounds.

JJ: Oh my

Mark Sisson: gosh. Yeah. I [00:19:15] weigh 1 74 now. Same body fat, [00:19:18] and I weigh literally 34 pounds more. [00:19:21] Than when I was a marathoner. You didn’t know me when I was a marathoner. That [00:19:24] was, I was, I was in, uh, Northern California, but by the time I [00:19:27] moved to LA and you saw me, I was up up [00:19:30] to 1 52. Wow. Which is still, which is what I was [00:19:33] weighing, which is still 20 pounds less than I weigh now.[00:19:36]

Uh, and again, all, and all of the difference [00:19:39] is muscle mass. So even though I was working out hard and I [00:19:42] was training hard and I had low body fat, I couldn’t keep muscle on because it’s [00:19:45] catabolic and all that, all that stuff, uh, [00:19:48] tears up muscle mass. And as you get older, we realize that [00:19:51] your, your aerobic [00:19:54] capacity doesn’t need to be [00:19:57] way up here, but your muscle mass does need to [00:20:00] be as high as you can possibly get.

Get it.

JJ: [00:20:03] Yes.

Mark Sisson: That’s

JJ: what I’ve been. I’m like, let’s pack on as much as [00:20:06] possible. Now back over to what we were [00:20:09] talking about. So the focus on muscle mass has been, [00:20:12] and here’s the thing, since VO2max is such a predictor of [00:20:15] like all cause mortality, I think the important thing is [00:20:18] you can train VO2max by lifting weights just by doing [00:20:21] high intensity.

So what’s cool is all these things [00:20:24] impact VO2max. It doesn’t mean that you have to go out [00:20:27] and run.

Mark Sisson: Um, exactly. In fact, [00:20:30] um, the, you know, what, what we would say [00:20:33] is every exercise is cardio. All [00:20:36] exercise is cardio. So

JJ: that’s the whole thing. I’m like, except for [00:20:39] this extreme sprint training, [00:20:42] it’s all cardio.

You’re using oxygen, but even, [00:20:45] I mean, I’m thinking now oxygen system, but all. All everything [00:20:48] involves your heart.

Mark Sisson: Even sprinting is cardinal because it just

JJ: doesn’t involve [00:20:51] oxygen.

Mark Sisson: Yeah, but it’s still it’s still working your heart muscle [00:20:54] everything and and building a heart strong heart muscle to be able to keep up with [00:20:57] the demands of the body.

See we choose to put the [00:21:00] body into a certain situation. Cog, our [00:21:03] cognition says I’m going to go do a heavy leg day or I’m going to do a [00:21:06] sprint day and so we do it and the heart goes. [00:21:09] All right, I guess I got to keep up with the demands, [00:21:12] whatever. The heart has no say in the matter. The heart doesn’t have a, it doesn’t have [00:21:15] nerve endings to go, oh, it hurts.

Like, if you go to the gym and you [00:21:18] lift, if you do, uh, 300 [00:21:21] repetitions of 80 pounds on the curl, your biceps are [00:21:24] going to go, no, JJ, we’re done. Stop. Heart [00:21:27] goes, okay, it’s whatever. [00:21:30] Until, until you encounter [00:21:33] problems, which I did as a result of 30 years of training. [00:21:36] I have heart issues. Um, they’re [00:21:39] not life threatening, but they’re, they’re, um, [00:21:42] disruptive because I ran my heart to [00:21:45] max four times a week for 30 years.[00:21:48]

And sometimes for 10 minutes or, or 30 minutes at [00:21:51] a time. So again, it’s just, [00:21:54] you, you want to, if, if what you’re doing in the gym is [00:21:57] contemplated to give you, um, either more power, make you [00:22:00] faster, improve in some regard or live longer, [00:22:03] then you got to pick the right ways to do [00:22:06] that and not sabotage yourself by doing too [00:22:09] much, for example, which is what you and I tended to do.[00:22:12]

JJ: Um, a little upset some, [00:22:15] some study came out and like going to [00:22:18] study needs to be picked up because it was like strings training can kill you. I go, [00:22:21] okay, you know what? I’m sure that there is that [00:22:24] outlier human that if they lifted weights all day, [00:22:27] every day, but considering that maybe 10 percent of us, 50 [00:22:30] plus are actually doing what we need to do.

I’m not worried about that. I’m worried [00:22:33] about what we’re not doing and that we are. Getting [00:22:36] sarcopenia or losing muscle mass. So what would you say would [00:22:39] be a great like fitness cocktail to put together [00:22:42] for someone who’s 50 plus, they [00:22:45] want to be able to be, you know, Aging powerfully [00:22:48] in their 70s, 80s, 90s, they want to be able to, [00:22:51] you know, run up the stairs, get the groceries, all the stuff that they [00:22:54] take for granted now.

How would you kind of put that program together? [00:22:57]

Mark Sisson: Well, so I’d start with food. I’d start with diet. Um, you [00:23:00] know, cut out the sugars, cut out the sweetened beverages, pies, [00:23:03] cakes, candies, cookies. Um, I’d cut out [00:23:06] industrial seed oils. I’d have food. You know, basically a [00:23:09] protein kitchen.

JJ: [00:23:12] When you did that, I’m like, Oh, thank God.

Yeah. Like we finally [00:23:15] have, this is the biggest place I find people get in trouble with, especially what [00:23:18] they put on the food and fats is the [00:23:21] dressings, the sauces. Yeah.

Mark Sisson: Like then you came up with this. That was the whole [00:23:24] point. That was, that was, you know, when I wrote the primal blueprint [00:23:27] and I started talking more and more about food and what happens when you [00:23:30] eliminate certain foods, you come down with kind of a small [00:23:33] list of foods that you could actually eat.

And what makes the difference. [00:23:36] That sauce is in the dressings and toppings and the herbs and [00:23:39] spices, the methods of preparation that can give it an [00:23:42] infinite variety, but you need to know what you can put [00:23:45] on certain things. And when we realized that there wasn’t really [00:23:48] anything in the market that you could put on with reckless abandon [00:23:51] and make.

Food tastes better or tastes different. [00:23:54] That was the opening that we saw.

JJ: Having mayonnaise

Mark Sisson: was [00:23:57] like a key changer. It was, it [00:24:00] was the holy grail because everybody who was paleo or cross [00:24:03] fed stopped eating chicken salad, tuna [00:24:06] salad, potato salad, whatever, because they, because [00:24:09] mayonnaise was the, was the key to that.

And everybody said, no, you can’t have the, [00:24:12] you can’t have the mayonnaise, you can’t have the industrial seed oils. [00:24:15] So we, we, And it was just [00:24:18] luck that that was the first product. Yeah, that was amazing. Yeah,

JJ: that was [00:24:21] amazing. Okay, so

Mark Sisson: so yeah So I would say start with food [00:24:24] because that’s really gonna define [00:24:27] 80 percent of your body composition then [00:24:30] walk walk walk walk walk walk walking is the [00:24:33] best thing a human to do and Walk [00:24:36] barefoot and walk in the appropriate footwear.

JJ: Yeah, let’s talk about that. [00:24:39] This is your new venture. Yeah. I think this is so funny that [00:24:42] you retired for like a minute. You know, he’s [00:24:45] like, we’re having so much fun. I’m like, boom, onto the next thing. I’m [00:24:48] like, you’re not gonna be able to retire.

Mark Sisson: Yeah.

JJ: Ever. Me either. I [00:24:51] get it.

Mark Sisson: So, so I sold Primal Kitchen and I, [00:24:54] And I was able to turn my attention to this thing that had nagged me [00:24:57] for decades, which was crappy footwear.

Like, I [00:25:00] never liked the shoes that I ran in. I think that part of my injuries [00:25:03] from overuse in running were a result of [00:25:06] thick, cushioned running shoes that [00:25:09] became, only came on the scene when Phil Knight and Nike [00:25:12] started in the mid 70s. And then they got thicker [00:25:15] and thicker and, and more cushioned and became more and [00:25:18] more problematic.

I’ve never liked dress shoes. We talked [00:25:21] about this before we started taping today, but men’s dress [00:25:24] shoes are just ridiculous. First of all, they don’t even look that good. [00:25:27] Second of all, they’re, they crunch your toes together [00:25:30] and God bless you. Women for wearing. Oh boy. Yeah. So [00:25:33]

JJ: you think

Mark Sisson: shoes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, no. So, [00:25:36] so heels and, you know, pointy shoes and stilettos and all, [00:25:39] all these things. They’re, um. [00:25:42] It’s a travesty and the human foot is designed to be [00:25:45] barefoot. Well, we can’t. We have pavement, [00:25:48] concrete, glass, tile, marble, hardwood floors, linoleum, [00:25:51] all of these surfaces that we’re not, we did not evolve to [00:25:54] walk barefoot on those.

So we need some sort of [00:25:57] footwear. But the ideal footwear would be a shoe that you could [00:26:00] feel the ground underneath. Because when you, when your foot lands, when you [00:26:03] walk, you’re, you’re, Brain is supposed to know instantly [00:26:06] every surface, every, every change of texture [00:26:09] so that it knows exactly how much to bend the ankle [00:26:12] outward, how to flex the foot, how to bend the knee, how to twerk the [00:26:15] hip, and how to absorb the shock.

So by the time you weight that [00:26:18] foot, the entire kinetic chain [00:26:21] has been, has been engaged appropriately and [00:26:24] in alignment. Well, now we put these thick shoes on. All of [00:26:27] that haptic input, that sensory input is gone. [00:26:30] And I watch slow motion videos of people walking [00:26:33] with like thick shoes on and I watch, I watch their knees tweak [00:26:36] bend inward to accommodate what the brain is [00:26:39] trying to figure out to do.

All of this is fixed by going [00:26:42] barefoot. But if you can’t go barefoot, then you have to pick the appropriate [00:26:45] shoe. And the appropriate shoe is one, it’s, it’s a minimalist [00:26:48] shoe. It’s wide, thin, flat, and flexible. So it’s wide. It [00:26:51] has to be have a wide toe box to accommodate, [00:26:54] toe splay. It has to have, it has to [00:26:57] have, uh, enough, uh, be thin enough [00:27:00] to feel the ground, zero drop from the heel to the toe, [00:27:03] because when you have, most shoes have a, have a raised [00:27:06] heel, if you’ll notice, and that raised heel, the, [00:27:09] among many other things, shortens the calf muscle, [00:27:12] which puts tension on the Achilles and can cause pain.

Planter fascia [00:27:15] problems. So you want, you want it to be flat. [00:27:18] And then ultimately what we did was we designed a five toe [00:27:21] shoe that allows the toes to articulate, because you want the [00:27:24] toe, especially the great toe, the big toe to push [00:27:27] off, uh, on its own, separate from the [00:27:30] other. toes if necessary to get the [00:27:33] proper gait and the proper stride.

So when you [00:27:36] walk in the right shoes, uh, you’re [00:27:39] reinforcing this powerful kinetic chain that you have. When [00:27:42] you don’t walk in the right shoes, a lot of people say, I’d [00:27:45] love to walk, but I can’t because it hurts my lower back. It hurts my knees or [00:27:48] whatever. It’s not because of anything wrong [00:27:51] with you. It’s the footwear that you’ve chosen that is putting [00:27:54] you in a, in a compromised position and only [00:27:57] exacerbated growth.

JJ: And here’s what’s cool [00:28:00] about this. Although I, and I’m going to share my story because you’re going to [00:28:03] overcome it. I’m going to make a proclamation that [00:28:06] I’ll happen to do because I said so. So [00:28:09] these are the ugliest, not yours, but like, you know, [00:28:12] these shoes before, I would always say, those are the [00:28:15] ugliest shoes I’ve ever seen.

Like, and [00:28:18] for, for women, no way, no way. Are [00:28:21] you getting ugly shoes on our feet? Like, no chance. You’re [00:28:24] already telling us to take our heels off. Now, this is [00:28:27] easier post pandemic. I will tell you, I have a whole closet of [00:28:30] high heels and like, what was I thinking? You [00:28:33] know, I mean, now my body’s like, don’t wear that.

Just don’t do that. [00:28:36] So you overcame the ugly, [00:28:39] like these things are really cute. Now I get them [00:28:42] and I gone to a movement therapist. He goes, you [00:28:45] need to start wearing yoga toes. Oh my gosh, those are the [00:28:48] most painful things ever. Like super painful. [00:28:51] And then of course I did it for a month and forgot. [00:28:54] He forgot.

Made myself sick. [00:28:57] But I get your shoes and I can’t get my little feet in there and I’m [00:29:00] highly impatient. In 30 seconds my feet don’t go [00:29:03] in the shoe. I’m like, I’m out. So, um, [00:29:06] walk through someone trying these shoes. Like, [00:29:09] kind of walk through the experience. Like, me [00:29:12] going now and trying them again. What would I, you know, What would I [00:29:15] expect over the course of say a month and what things would I notice [00:29:18] changing by wearing them?

Mark Sisson: Well, so first of all, you have to [00:29:21] get the toes in for people who are [00:29:24] watching. But you’ll

JJ: want to check the

Mark Sisson: fit. Yeah, so this is this is the um [00:29:27] First of all, look how cute this is. Right, so this is this is a trainer. This is a blue [00:29:30] blue men’s trainer. Um, we have [00:29:33] And, uh, it’s got five toes [00:29:36] and you want to get the toes into each individual toe [00:29:39] box.

That’s the first thing. That’s the first thing. And as, as we [00:29:42] say, if your, if your toes slide right into these shoes, [00:29:45] you want these shoes. If your toes don’t slide right into [00:29:48] these, you need these shoes. So a lot of people will [00:29:51] take. 10 minutes sometimes to like [00:29:54] finally get their toes in and then at that point I would say you [00:29:57] lace the shoes up you wear them around the house for an hour or [00:30:00] two whatever is comfortable you take them off most [00:30:03] people will notice that their their toes are tired [00:30:06] that’s because they haven’t worked their toes for [00:30:09] decades they haven’t really worked their toes even when they’re walking barefoot they’re [00:30:12] most people don’t walk barefoot enough to to really work their [00:30:15] toes so then the next day [00:30:18] Go through the process again, put them on, walk around, do some [00:30:21] errands, drive around town, pick the kids up at school, go [00:30:24] to Whole Foods or wherever you go, um, and get used [00:30:27] to that sensation.

Uh, it’s a good [00:30:30] sensation. And get used to, like, we do these events at running shoe [00:30:33] stores. We’re in a bunch of running shoe stores now. And we, [00:30:36] it’s called, uh, um, Wednesday Walk Wine. [00:30:39] And Dry Farms is one of our sponsors.

JJ: Oh, this is so

Mark Sisson: good. See [00:30:42] that?

JJ: We’ll

Mark Sisson: do this. So, so what we do is we have people [00:30:45] come. We bring, uh, try on samples, [00:30:48] and so everybody gets to pick, wear a pair for the walk, [00:30:51] uh, and we have, uh, we’ve, you know, we have [00:30:54] five toed socks.

You could, you could wear the socks. the socks in [00:30:57] key. I have the socks. But we, but we’ll take people on [00:31:00] a one mile walk with A glass of wine and we talk, [00:31:03] but, but we walk over manhole covers and we walk [00:31:06] on curbs and we walk in, in divots on the ground and we say, feel [00:31:09] that, feel what’s going on with your foot and your toe.

And you get to the [00:31:12] point where you go, Oh my God, like my whole life, [00:31:15] I’ve, I’ve been oblivious to what’s going [00:31:18] on underneath my feet. And now all of a sudden my feet are [00:31:21] informing my brain of exactly how to bend my ankle and bend my knee and [00:31:24] whatever. So, um, so the [00:31:27] third, the third Day in, your feet will slide in a little bit [00:31:30] easier.

Um, now you’ll start to feel like, oh my God, this [00:31:33] is like, this is really comfortable. Like this is the most comfortable [00:31:36] shoe I’ve ever worn. And you can take, you know, [00:31:39] people go to the, we have a lot of people in the gym doing leg days [00:31:42] with them and, you know, kind of specific workouts. [00:31:45] But my next door neighbor walks eight miles a day.

We got her a [00:31:48] pair early on. She’s like, I’m not touching them. Like, it’s not, I have [00:31:51] bunions and she’s walking eight, nine miles a [00:31:54] day in palovas now, you know? They’re the best walking shoes [00:31:57] she’s ever had and her bunions are being [00:32:00] fixed.

JJ: Yeah,

Mark Sisson: so it’s a it’s a process you have to [00:32:03] The three things that we talk about with paluba [00:32:06] shoes are relax, realign, and strengthen.

You want to [00:32:09] relax your feet, you want to, because they’re being crushed by [00:32:12] these shoes, um, normal shoes, [00:32:15] realign. So even if you have like a wide toe [00:32:18] box shoe, like a vivobarefoot or a zero [00:32:21] shoe or any other minimalist shoe, do you think your, [00:32:24] your your, Scrunched feet are gonna seek a [00:32:27] level. They’re gonna splay out on their own.

No, you can’t even split get [00:32:30] them to do that No, no, no spread your toes. I’m like nothing. [00:32:33] No because you haven’t you haven’t worked [00:32:36] those muscles individually ever your whole [00:32:39] life. Uh, so now we’re doing it. So now we’re, so [00:32:42] when I say it’s important that we have the, the ground [00:32:45] feel underneath, this is, this is like nine millimeters, less than a [00:32:48] centimeter of distance between your heel and the ground.

Most of it is cushioning. We [00:32:51] want you to have the effect of like, uh, walking barefoot on a [00:32:54] putty grade, for instance. That’s the feel that we want to get. [00:32:57] So I can, like, I can walk, 10, 12 miles on pavement in these [00:33:00] and it feels great. Um, but you want the, [00:33:03] then you want the toes to splay outwardly. You want, you want [00:33:06] them to be like this, not like this, not scrunched together.

And [00:33:09] ultimately you want the articulation. You want the toes to work [00:33:12] individually. So if you step on a little rock or a pebble or a bump on [00:33:15] a log or something like that, you want every toe to [00:33:18] respond differently. they wind up [00:33:21] reclaiming their strength. And [00:33:24] over time you rebuild the feet, you’re able to arch [00:33:27] rebuild the small muscles of the feet now become, [00:33:30] uh, resilient, strong.[00:33:33]

I’ve got, uh, one of the top professional athletes, [00:33:36] uh, trains in Palo Beso in the off season, and you watch him move [00:33:39] on the field. And he’s got more ankle mobility [00:33:42] than anybody I’ve ever seen. Wow. It’s it’s. [00:33:45] The notion that football players, for instance, would [00:33:48] tape their ankles up. No [00:33:51] wonder they get a high ankle sprain or they tear [00:33:54] their Achilles off their calf muscle, because the foot [00:33:57] is supposed to be doing 20 to [00:34:00] 30 percent of the work before any of the other [00:34:03] forces work their way up the leg.

The foot should be resilient and [00:34:06] strong and be able to, and so now we say, well, [00:34:09] when I’m 70 or 80 and I want to be able to climb stairs, well, [00:34:12] you can’t climb stairs if you have [00:34:15] Feet that are compromised. If you’ve got feet that are [00:34:18] weak from years of misuse, or being scrunched together, [00:34:21] or not being developed.

Because, [00:34:24] you know, the shoe industry has this [00:34:27] secret, which is, we would rather address [00:34:30] your pain if you have Uh, plantar fasciitis, or if [00:34:33] you have arch pain, or kid’s pain, or Morton’s [00:34:36] neuroma, or a bunion, let’s fix it. Let’s, let’s [00:34:39] put an arch support in there, so your little arch doesn’t hurt. [00:34:42] Well, if you said my biceps are weak, and they, and I, [00:34:45] you know, we wouldn’t say, we’re going to give you a brace, and never, never use your [00:34:48] biceps.

It’ll

JJ: be great.

Mark Sisson: Yeah. [00:34:51] It’ll, yeah, we’ll give you sling and it’ll look like it. And if you go like this, it’ll look [00:34:54] like you have a bicep, but that’s [00:34:57] what we’re doing with feet where we, because we encase and [00:35:00] brace our feet in these, what we think are [00:35:03] modern orthopedically sound shoes, we’re doing [00:35:06] the exact opposite.

JJ: And it strikes me that, [00:35:09] you know, when you think about strength training, you can never go [00:35:12] past your weakest sling.

Mark Sisson: And bingo, and feet are [00:35:15] the weakest link for a lot of people. Like, if you can’t [00:35:18] get your ass to the gym because your feet are messed [00:35:21] up, you’re screwed. It’s [00:35:24] just a downhill grick for you, right?

So feet, [00:35:27] people don’t realize that feet are, they are our [00:35:30] connection to this universe, to this world. Our [00:35:33] feet being anchored to the ground and our ability to walk and be [00:35:36] mobile and, and, and run and jump and play. Every athlete, feet, [00:35:39] most important. If you’re a golfer, feet, important. If you’re [00:35:42] a three point shooter, feet, you got to plant the feet.

If you’re [00:35:45] a runner, if you’re a jumper, whatever, you, you, you get it. But if, [00:35:48] and then look at some of these athletes, Feet. Like, have you [00:35:51] seen pictures of LeBron James feet? Mm-Hmm. They, they’re [00:35:54] so

JJ: gnarly. It looked like, I just think balling on her feet, like I [00:35:57] was a point like this. Ridiculous. But I was a point, [00:36:00] I was a point ballerina briefly.

Yeah. For my [00:36:03] ACL. Yeah. Um, but boy, you have bad feet when [00:36:06] you do that. Yes. Shove all that in and on a tohu and stand up. [00:36:09] No, no, no. Yeah. No, I, it’s all just imagine. [00:36:12] But just imagine, I mean, we’re talking athletes and then I [00:36:15] think of. everyday life and just even the [00:36:18] shoes that Chalene and Carrie were wearing last night, not me, [00:36:21] but what they were wearing and [00:36:24] just what we

Mark Sisson: all do.

In the, in the name of [00:36:27] fashion, right? In the name of looking good. It should, you know, Chalene, I mean, [00:36:30] I get it. Chalene wants to appear, you know, [00:36:33] statuesque. That’s great. And the [00:36:36] shoes do look good, but that doesn’t mean, and it doesn’t mean you [00:36:39] can’t, you know, Wear them. She was, Carrie wears [00:36:42] palovas all the time.

She was barefoot in the house, she wears palovas all the time. [00:36:45] But when she goes out, she wears heels. Now, [00:36:48] I’ll be clear, like last night, we live a [00:36:51] block and a half from the restaurant that we ate at. [00:36:54] We took a golf cart because she didn’t walk, she could not [00:36:57] walk in those heels. I was

JJ: wondering about that.

She could not walk in those heels. I [00:37:00] go, how is she going to walk home in those? And Tim’s like, they live a [00:37:03] block and a half away. I go, honey, you’ve never worn those. No, no, [00:37:06] no. She has, she literally has. 50 yard heels [00:37:09] and 150 yard heels. We all understand. [00:37:12] Every woman listening is like Uhhuh. Of course. Yeah.

You [00:37:15] know, there’s the ones where, you know, you’re just going somewhere and you’re going to [00:37:18] sit

Mark Sisson: right, or you’re gonna leave the car and walk through [00:37:21] the lobby and sit. Yeah. Right. That’s it. I mean, I have very [00:37:24] specific shoes. I, I get it. But you know, it’s doesn’t make it [00:37:27] right. It makes it makes it hot, but it doesn’t mean everything.[00:37:30]

JJ: Well, this is super cool because I love the [00:37:33] things that when you put them in, it can have a major [00:37:36] shift, which is what this sounds like it can do. Like you could [00:37:39] literally become 10, 20, 30 percent [00:37:42] stronger. by doing this and improving your gait [00:37:45] speed. Like that’s so cool. And all we’re [00:37:48] doing is saying, Hey, instead of the shoes you were buying, [00:37:51] just get these and wear them to the gym, wear them when you walk.

[00:37:54] That’s it. Just a little, a little shift. And they’re not expensive. [00:37:57] It’s not like we’re saying, Hey, buy a thousand dollar

Mark Sisson: shoes, right? No, [00:38:00] these are these, this is 139. Um, [00:38:03] um, and you know, as we go up, we have a, you know, we have a [00:38:06] low for this. It’s very fancy. Yeah. So this is an interesting [00:38:09] shoe. It looks thick.

It’s, it’s made to look like other [00:38:12] shoes on the mar, you know, sort of stylish shoes. It’s still, [00:38:15] uh, only one centimeter of, of height. So it’s, [00:38:18] uh, it’s a Trump loy, if you will. And then we have this, this is the [00:38:21] men’s desert. That’s so cool. Desert. Those are so cool. [00:38:24] Yeah. So that’s a desert boot. So, uh, and you know, [00:38:27] the, the idea was once you understand [00:38:30] the.

The joy [00:38:33] of toe freedom and the experience of having your toes, [00:38:36] um, you know, being able to live freely and do what they’re [00:38:39] supposed to do. You won’t want to wear other shoes [00:38:42] again. Now you wear the heels, whatever. You earn [00:38:45] your heels. But for people like [00:38:48] me who I just don’t, I can’t wear any other shoes [00:38:51] because every time I put on a, uh, you know, [00:38:54] on running shoes or, or any of them, Nikes or whatever, [00:38:57] yeah, they’re wide at the metatarsal, but my toes still want to keep [00:39:00] going out from there, which like they’re supposed to, and then the shoes just [00:39:03] scrunch your back together again.

So, but it would be off brand. [00:39:06] So, so, so, so I [00:39:09] wear, so I, we make shoe, as we say, a pullover for all [00:39:12] occasions. There you

JJ: go.

Mark Sisson: You’ve

JJ: got this nailed and [00:39:15] you’re giving everybody. a guide on [00:39:18] something around feet. Yeah. Some foot guide. Yeah. Let’s see what it [00:39:21] is. I’m going to put it at jjvirgin. com forward slash [00:39:24] barefoot.

Okay, great. Yeah. Now it’s [00:39:27] B A R E, bear, not bear like the bear. Um, [00:39:30] you have Building Strong Resilient Feet. Yes. [00:39:33] Yes.

Mark Sisson: Okay, cool. So it’s like a, it’s a 75 page book [00:39:36] on how to, you know, on the importance of what we just talked about [00:39:39] and achieving, you know, strong, resilient feet. [00:39:42] Uh, whether or not you, you even use Paloova, you’re still [00:39:45] going to want to do some of these exercises and understand the, [00:39:48] the importance of, of walking barefoot and, you know, [00:39:51] walk, like in your house, walking up and downstairs barefoot.

One of the best things you can [00:39:54] do, right? Cool. I do a lot

JJ: of that, but, um, [00:39:57] I haven’t gone to the gym yet, but now I’m doing this. Now [00:40:00] I’m slaying. That’s right. All right. That is cool. Again, [00:40:03] jjvirgin. com, barefoot. [00:40:06] And we will be doing that video. So you’ll have to [00:40:09] also check that out wherever we end up putting the video of [00:40:12] us doing our

Mark Sisson: closed eyes

JJ: 30

Mark Sisson: second [00:40:15]

JJ: thingy.

Mark Sisson: Yeah.

JJ: All right. Thank you. So awesome. I [00:40:18] appreciate you. Oh, thank you for having me.[00:40:21]

Be sure to [00:40:24] join me next time for more tools, tips, and techniques. You can [00:40:27] incorporate into everyday life to ensure you look and feel great. [00:40:30] And more importantly, that you’re built to [00:40:33] last. And check me out on Instagram, Facebook, [00:40:36] YouTube, and my website, jjvirgin. com. [00:40:39] And make sure to follow my podcast so you don’t miss a single [00:40:42] episode at subscribetojj.

com. [00:40:45] See you next time.[00:40:48] [00:40:51] [00:40:54]

Hey, JJ here. And just a [00:40:57] reminder that the well beyond 40 podcast offers health, wellness, [00:41:00] fitness and nutritional information that’s designed for [00:41:03] educational and entertainment purposes only. You should not [00:41:06] rely on this information as a substitute for, nor does [00:41:09] it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or [00:41:12] treatment.

If you have any concerns or questions about your health, [00:41:15] you should always consult with the physician or other healthcare [00:41:18] professional. Make sure that you do not disregard, [00:41:21] avoid, or delay obtaining medical or health related advice from [00:41:24] your healthcare professional because of something you may have heard on this [00:41:27] show or read in our show notes.

The use of any [00:41:30] information provided on this show is solely at your own [00:41:33] risk.
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