[00:00:00] JJ: I’m JJ Virgin, PhD dropout, sorry mom, turned four time New York Times bestselling author. Yes, I’m a certified nutrition specialist, fitness hall of famer, and I speak at health conferences and trainings around the globe, but I’m driven by my insatiable curiosity and love trainings Science to keep asking questions, digging for answers, and sharing the information that I uncover with as many people as I can.

[00:00:27] JJ: And that’s why I created the Well Beyond 40 podcast to synthesize and simplify the science of health into actionable strategies to help you thrive. In each episode we’ll talk about what’s working in the world of wellness. From personalized nutrition and healing your metabolism to healthy aging and prescriptive fitness.

[00:00:47] JJ: Join me on the journey to better health so you can love how you look and feel right now and have the energy to play full out at 100. All right, today we are unpacking protein. How much do you need? Can you get it in one meal a day? Can you eat too much? We’re also going to dig into blood sugar balance.

[00:01:10] JJ: And do you need to do the hacks? Or is there a simpler way to go about this? And if you are using a CGM, what should you be looking for? We’ll be unpacking seed oils. Are they bad? Are they not bad? Why? And even digging into some intermittent fasting. We’ve really gone all over the place today and with super useful information, very actionable tips.

[00:01:33] JJ: I’ve got Kelly Levesque with me. She’s a clinical nutritionist, celebrity health coach, and the best selling author of Body Love. I embody love every day. I got acquainted to her, introduced to her by our mutual buddy, Dr. Tony Yoo, who you’ve probably seen on Instagram and TikTok. And it was, she is just fabulous.

[00:01:54] JJ: I really enjoyed getting to know her better. She possibly is the only person I’ve met who really does live a balanced life. With three small kids. She lives in Southern California with her husband. Hubby and their beach loving kids and is out there doing amazing work. You’re going to love this interview.

[00:02:14] JJ: And again, she has lots of actionable tips and she’s also given a free guide. You can grab that at jjvirgin. com forward slash Kelly, K E L L Y. And I will be right back with Kelly Levesque. Stay with me.

[00:02:29] JJ: Kelly Levesque, welcome to the show.

[00:02:31] Kelly LeVeque: Hey, JJ, it’s good to see you again.

[00:02:34] JJ: Well, I’m very excited about this because we are going to, we’re going to go deep, but we’re going to major in the majors.

[00:02:41] Kelly LeVeque: And that’s why I’ve always loved you, because let’s, let’s get the, the big stuff right first.

[00:02:47] JJ: Well, isn’t it amazing that when you get the big stuff right, a lot of the little things just self correct and you don’t even have to worry about them.

[00:02:56] Kelly LeVeque: I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s that, it’s those macros that really weed out, uh, all, all the junk that gets in the way for sure.

[00:03:06] JJ: Exactly. And we were talking offline about protein, blood sugar, intermittent fasting. I went, well, there’s like three great things that we can get into. And I would love to start first with protein because especially as a registered dietitian, um, I would think that maybe some of your training made you a little protein phobic to start with.

[00:03:26] JJ: And, you know, maybe not, but maybe has your, has your whole idea about protein changed in the last couple of years? Like, what’s your stance on protein?

[00:03:35] Kelly LeVeque: I have always been pro protein because it’s what I grew up with. It’s what I love to eat. It makes me feel calm and satiated. And actually I took a class when I was going back to school for nutrition.

[00:03:46] Kelly LeVeque: I had an eight year career in cancer and genetics before going back to school for nutrition. And I took a class called, um, uh, nature of human health and disease. And food, mood, and behavior. So there were two classes and nature of human health and disease. The thesis that I wrote was on type two diabetes.

[00:04:02] Kelly LeVeque: So I understood how protein supports blood sugar balance. I don’t think people really realize this, but protein breaks down to amino acids and amino acids can be used to make glucose. If we need it, if our blood sugar is dipping. But it does this amazing job of slowing down digestion, giving us the amino acids our body needs, and making us feel energized and full.

[00:04:25] Kelly LeVeque: And so in that class nature of human health and disease, I learned all about how protein actually supports blood sugar balance and how we need it as an essential. We can’t get it from you know, we can’t just make protein. We have to get essential amino acids and it doesn’t matter if you’re fruit itarian or vegan, it doesn’t matter if you’re carnivore, you have to get your essential amino acids from your food.

[00:04:44] Kelly LeVeque: And so I don’t really care what your lifestyle is. You got to get your protein to feel good and satisfied. And then what And, um, the last one that was super interesting to me was, um, Food, Mood and Behavior was this course where I learned about how amino acids and protein regulate the majority of our hunger hormones and make us feel full.

[00:05:01] Kelly LeVeque: And so while we’re in this, um, Era of Ozempic and all of these type two diabetes drugs supporting us to feel calm and full. We realize they’re activating and working on these hormone pathways that are activated by protein. And in reality, if we’re getting enough protein and complete proteins that provide us with our essential amino acids, we actually are gonna feel calm and full.

[00:05:23] Kelly LeVeque: For four to six hours between our meals, not needing to snack and we’re regulated and biologically feeling like, I feel great. And so protein is the unlock that a lot of people aren’t using. And it’s just, I mean, even the, the newest research is really, um, is really helpful for me when working with my clients.

[00:05:44] Kelly LeVeque: There was just a study we were talking about before this started, where they compared. Zero grams of protein, a placebo group to 25 grams of protein to a hundred grams of protein in a setting in a, in one sitting. And what they were looking at was muscle protein synthesis. And we know that our muscle is our metabolic currency.

[00:06:03] Kelly LeVeque: That is our metabolism. And so we want to hold on to it. Right. But in the past, they would say, If you had protein, you had to have a bolus of protein every three to four hours, and that can be a lot for people to have five to six small meals with their protein and, and meal prepping. And what we know now is that between zero and four hours, the 25 grams of protein versus a hundred grams of protein, there was no statistical difference.

[00:06:27] Kelly LeVeque: In muscle protein synthesis or holding onto that lean muscle mass. But from four hours to 12 hours, the people who were ingesting a hundred grams of protein had a 40% increase in those hours of muscle protein synthesis. So what I always tell my clients is, if you can get enough protein for your body mass, and for me, I’m looking for.

[00:06:49] Kelly LeVeque: 0. 75 at the minimum per pound of body mass to one gram to 1. 25 grams depending on your lifestyle. Someone who’s super active and working out or maybe moving into perimenopause or menopause, like you need to eat that protein to hold on to your lean muscle mass and you need to lift heavy. And those are like the keys to the kingdom there.

[00:07:10] Kelly LeVeque: And so all of this, you know, when we get in the weeds around how much, how often, um, it, it, it really is just about looking at your overall day and getting those macros right over that 24 hour period.

[00:07:24] JJ: And so what do you say to the person? Because I still hear this. They’re like, Oh, there’s this protein fear.

[00:07:32] JJ: Where is it coming from?

[00:07:33] Kelly LeVeque: There is, well, well, I think we need to, we, we can address the, uh, the elephant in the room. A lot of times when people are changing their diet, they’re also changing the way that they’re working out. They may start eating protein and lifting heavy at the same time. There is, and there can be some like swelling that happens, some water retention that happens in the beginning of a training period.

[00:07:56] Kelly LeVeque: But there is no world in which a woman in, um, you know, for me, I’m in my forties. I mean, you’re, you’re forties, you’re fifties, you’re sixties who is eating protein and lifting heavy. They are not, even in their twenties or thirties, you are not going to get. You are going to build lean muscle mass and lean muscle mass.

[00:08:15] Kelly LeVeque: I always give the example, like a pound of fat is about the size of a football and a pound of lean muscle mass is a pound of green ground beef. If you’ve ever cooked that in your house, the size is so much smaller and all you’re going to do is lose inches over time. So we really can’t look at the scale either.

[00:08:32] Kelly LeVeque: Cause when people are ingesting enough essential amino acids, we can have, Organ weight that Ink proves. We have muscle mass there. We have bone density. There’s so much there at play that we uh, if we’re using the scale as our, as our like barometer for how we feel, look and perform like. We are, we’re working from the 1950s and 60s.

[00:08:56] Kelly LeVeque: We really need to move into DEXA scans. We need to move into measurements. You need to look at your strength over time. Like that’s, and you know this cause you talk about aging powerfully all the time. Like that’s how we can set ourselves up for success.

[00:09:11] JJ: So the other piece of this and you know when you talked about protein you talked about muscle protein synthesis That’s just one role of these essential amino acids and amino acids you look at all the other work They need to do right and the fact that it’s not like they’re I mean sure we stored them in our muscles That’s not where you want to go get them, and we’ve got what 300 grams of you know amino acid turnover a day So It’s got a lot going on.

[00:09:36] JJ: What do you think about, because I’ve been very intrigued with essential amino acid supplementation and I’ve been digging into it a lot because as I started to recommend and really get, get fierce about people getting in enough protein and optimal. The thing I kept hearing, I heard two schools of thought.

[00:09:55] JJ: One were, one were protein phobic and the other just was like, I can’t eat that much, which I’m like, then just eat it first. It’s how can you not eat a five ounce chicken breast? Come on. You can do it. Um, but the other side of that, I think is really interesting, especially for sixties, seventies, eighties is to supplement with essential amino acids.

[00:10:14] JJ: It just makes sense to me. What are your thoughts on it?

[00:10:18] Kelly LeVeque: I’ve been really impressed with the research, actually. When we look at the research of essential amino acids, we can see an improvement in a lean muscle mass and an increase in muscle protein synthesis. It is so simple to mix into water. It dissolves almost like a collagen.

[00:10:34] Kelly LeVeque: They taste horrible, just full disclosure. A lot of essential amino acids are covered with natural flavors, citric acid, malic acid, and then you can get them in capsule form if you don’t like the taste and you want unflavored. But the research is there and it has been for. For a long time actually, um, and there are even, uh, fermented blends coming from, um, places in Asia like Japan.

[00:10:59] Kelly LeVeque: Um, there’s, it’s there, the research is there and it’s so easy to incorporate. Um, whereas an incomplete protein like a collagen or a bone broth might not get, it’s not going to get you the leucine you need to have muscle protein synthesis. And when we talk about essential amino acids, you know, like you said, there’s.

[00:11:18] Kelly LeVeque: There’s such a need for amino acids in our body from everything from our neurotransmitters to our hormones to your epithelial lining. So when we talk about the development of leaky gut and autoimmune diseases, I mean, even your immune system is requiring so much amino, so many amino acids. And we think about getting sick or having leaky gut or having an autoimmune condition that is going to impact your ability to get in the gym and work out, to sleep properly.

[00:11:44] Kelly LeVeque: Um, it’s sort of a no brainer for me in regards to aging powerfully and what you talk about because there’s kind of no excuse now at this point to, to hit your macros, especially your protein bucket, because that is, that’s really going to keep you in the game.

[00:12:01] JJ: And I look at this, I’m, I’m amazed this is not used more and especially not used, say, in hospital settings, rehab, like when my son was hit by a car and in a hospital, like I was.

[00:12:12] JJ: Bringing in, I had protein shakes going, but I also put in essential amino acids because I knew we had a huge flux need for them. I look at essential amino acids and collagen completely different. Like I think we have to get, there’s just this idea out here of collagen as protein. Now think of collagen even though it’s the most abundant protein for joints, for hair, skin, and nails, for all of that.

[00:12:34] JJ: So I do that, but I don’t do that for muscle building. Those are two separate things. Um, how about All of the still prevailing misconceptions out there about protein that people are, and I’m, I’m just amazed, but it’s still out there when I talk about it, people concerned about their kidneys, people concerned about their bones.

[00:12:55] JJ: So what do you say to some of the myths out there?

[00:12:59] Kelly LeVeque: Well, we just have to point it back to the research. Like I think the idea that we, um, you know, I think that terms like condom meat, like meat should be a side of your, of us. On the side of your plate and not the main component of your plate. Like when we talk about, um, cell turnover, when we talk about health of the human body, the most.

[00:13:21] Kelly LeVeque: The most important thing that we need, the essential nutrient that we need, is essential amino acids. It makes everything in our body, from neurotransmitters, like I said, to hormones, to cells, to muscle cells, and it’s constantly turning over and majority of us aren’t. Getting enough of it. And we’re seeing the side effects of that.

[00:13:40] Kelly LeVeque: Like these chronic lifestyle diseases. When you look at things like people with type two diabetes, this is a lifestyle based disease based on eating too many carbohydrates and the way to get our blood sugar balanced and to feel satisfied is ingesting enough amino acids. And so going back. so much for joining us today.

[00:14:12] Kelly LeVeque: When we really look at nutrition science and we look at these studies, a lot of them are community based. They are survey based. They’re not double blind placebo studies. We’re not taking into account genetics, someone’s muscle mass, how they work out their family history. And so making these Conclusions on something that may be just simply correlated is what gives our news headlines.

[00:14:38] Kelly LeVeque: In reality, it’s, it’s a disservice to so many of us, especially women, because we’re, we’re the group that really listens to these headlines and starts to cut out protein in our diet or leans on, I mean, I can think about clients that I’ve had. Who, you know, have maybe dieted and worked out their whole life.

[00:14:57] Kelly LeVeque: And I sit down with them and they are, you know, in menopause or in perimenopause and they’re having a hard boiled egg for breakfast. And there’s no understanding that’s only six grams of protein. And for someone who’s 130 pounds, I want them to hit 130 grams of protein a day. We need to get strategic about where they can get those essential amino acids in a compact way.

[00:15:17] Kelly LeVeque: So if that means having chicken or salmon or steak for breakfast, that’s a little bit more efficient than one egg at six grams of protein or a protein shake.

[00:15:28] JJ: Yeah, well, you’re gonna have to do a lot of eggs and you’d overload your fat. So, right, that’s where food tracking can be so helpful. And you know, I’m actually adamant that’s one of my first steps with people because to food track, and not just food track, but to food track with the food scale, so you can really see it because it is an eye opener.

[00:15:48] JJ: You realize you’re not getting it. And as you said, if you just lead with protein, you’re not hungry. It’s so easy. Right? Right. It’s like you look and go, why are these GLP 1 drugs working? What does protein do?

[00:16:02] Kelly LeVeque: Right. And there’s, it’s interesting because there are so many hunger hormones, uh, that are activated when we’re eating.

[00:16:09] Kelly LeVeque: And like, for example, um, like PYY is this, um, peptide YY is this hormone that if we aren’t eating enough protein, we crave sugar. And so that’s one of these misconceptions where when people lean into intuitive eating and they’re like, well, I’m feeling like. I’d like to have some sugar. And the reality is if they’ve probably been on a blood sugar rollercoaster, they’re probably under eating protein because when you are eating protein consistently at mealtimes and getting enough to regulate hunger hormones and keep you full and elongate that blood sugar curve over time, The sugar cravings go away, the afternoon crashes go away, the late night obsessive thoughts about food go away.

[00:16:51] Kelly LeVeque: And it isn’t about controlling what you eat anymore, it’s about understanding how to plate up what allows you to forget about food between meals.

[00:17:00] JJ: Yeah, the intuitive eating. If I’d done intuitive eating when I was in college, I would have been living on frozen yogurt and popcorn and licorice. No, seriously, because my body, I was like, oh, I need like a carb, carb, carb, carb.

[00:17:15] JJ: It’s like it works. When you’ve got a healthy metabolism and you’ve trained your taste buds and, you know, got everything under control, the, um, when you talk about PYY, it makes me think of that protein leverage hypothesis and how, you know, they first found it with locusts and then monkeys and I think now they’ve proven it in humans that we will overeat in an attempt to get protein.

[00:17:38] JJ: And it sounds pretty crazy. Like there’s the mechanism for it. So.

[00:17:42] Kelly LeVeque: A hundred percent. I mean, you have nerves that innervate your gut lining, looking for essential amino acids, looking for essential fatty acids. And so, you know, there is, we shouldn’t be throwing the, all of our fat out. We absolutely have to get those omegas from our food as well.

[00:17:57] Kelly LeVeque: They’re anti inflammatory. They support brain health, cognitive development, um, in humans and have shown to support that over time. Um, but when we look at the animal protein sources, a lot of them pasture raised red meats. They’re coming with sources. They’re coming with omega 3 doses that we need along with wild fish like salmon and halibut.

[00:18:17] Kelly LeVeque: I mean, if you’re, if you’re plating up animal protein, it is, and it’s interesting because my views have changed. Like I, I wrote, um, my first book, body love was all about balancing blood sugar, using what I call the fab four protein fat fiber, which is your non starchy vegetables and leafy greens. So it was a, it was a, way to focus my clients on what doesn’t break down to glucose, what doesn’t break down to blood sugar quickly.

[00:18:44] Kelly LeVeque: Um, and if you use that list, you’re plating up essential amino acids, essential fatty acids, and then what I would consider the essential fibers and antioxidants from plant based foods that support your gut microbiome and give you a slow dose of glucose while also slowing down digestion and keeping, um, Gut health at the forefront.

[00:19:05] Kelly LeVeque: When we look at like, when we look at people not plating that type of meal up, they’re not regulating their hunger hormones. They’re not feeling full. And like you said, they’re not getting those essential amino acids and fatty acids that the brain is constantly looking for, um, to make us feel full. So if they’re not plating protein first, and like you were on my podcast and I loved your example.

[00:19:29] Kelly LeVeque: A salad with your sugary nuts and your dehydrated cranberries. And it’s like, it’s really just dessert. A Snickers bar on a plate with a little leafy greens prior to your meal, you are going to fill up on the things structurally fill up. And so if you’re filling your stomach and stretching your stomach, you are going to regulate some hunger hormones like ghrelin and you may really that protein may take a back burner and then you’re going to be hungry within, you know,

[00:20:01] JJ: So you mentioned one and I love your fab four, it’s like the trifecta when I say eat by the plate, it’s basically protein, fat, and fiber. And I really look at this and I think the first place when we’re thinking about fat, if you’re eating clean, like you said, pastured, wild, etc. You are getting a Healthy fats alongside the protein.

[00:20:22] JJ: When you look in nature, animal protein, seafood, they all come with, with fat. It’s when you feed them incorrectly that you start to push the profile in the wrong direction. And then you look at like, how do you get some of those? If you need more fat, how do you get some of those whole fats in nature?

[00:20:40] JJ: Things more like avocado and nuts and seeds. Um, Um, I, we didn’t talk about this offline, but, but since it’s come up, I just feel like I must, must address the seed oil situation. And I’d love to hear your take on it because you talked about essential fatty acids. And I think part of what we forget is that there’s omega 3s and omega 6s that are essential.

[00:21:04] Kelly LeVeque: Right.

[00:21:04] JJ: So there is a difference between, you know, eating, eating nuts and seeds and eating a industrialized seed oil that possibly has been damaged and oxidized. So what is your take on seed oils?

[00:21:18] Kelly LeVeque: I think it’s unfortunate that they’re so omnipresent in our food supply. Um, you know, when we pulled transplant trans fats off the shelves and industrial seed oils became a cheap and easy fat source to throw into our granola bars, using our chips, roast our nuts with, I mean, these weren’t, you know, I mean, we can’t get our hands on them.

[00:21:40] Kelly LeVeque: I mean, the only one that you could potentially maybe get your hands on as a human being and not in the industrial world would be like grape seed oil. But the majority of these oils are sunflower, safflower, corn, cotton seed. Um, and unfortunately they are, Predominantly omega 6 and omega 6 is a polyunsaturated fat that, um, you know, if you’re eating an almond, those polyunsaturated fats come in, you have a vitamin E, which is an antioxidant that protects the oxidation of that fat when it’s in a whole food form.

[00:22:13] Kelly LeVeque: Like you’re having a nut, it’s in the whole food form, those omega 6s are coming in in a lower dose. When we concentrate them and Use these industrial seed oils. They’re predominantly omega 6. Omega 6 is hot, can oxidize so quickly with light and heat. And a lot of these industrial seed oils are processed with chemicals like hexane, which oxidize them even further.

[00:22:40] Kelly LeVeque: And what we see in the research is Over ingestion of omega 6 oils creates inflammation in the body, but it creates this toxic byproduct called HNE, which is implicated in everything from heart disease to cancer. And now, you know, I think was in, um, 2019, my second book came out and the, the numbers, when we looked at the body’s levels of omegas.

[00:23:03] Kelly LeVeque: Omega-3 to omega six. Back then it was one, um, Omega-3 to 25 parts, omega six. And we’re supposed to have a one-to-one ratio. I thought it was one to four. Oh, sorry. You’re right. It is supposed to be one to four. Um, but yes, but the one to. The one to 25 ratio, which is obviously the five times what we want, um, was even in 2019.

[00:23:32] Kelly LeVeque: And now we’re seeing it, uh, now we’re seeing it one to 40 based on the amount of industrial seed oils being used from not just fast food. They’re being used in a lot of quote unquote, healthy, gluten free paleo style snacks that, yeah. Um, They’re all using sunflower and safflower oil as their frying oil and binding oil, which is, which is tough to see because you’re, you want that balance to create an anti inflammatory body, or at least to be able to handle the problems that you come in contact with, which you don’t want chronic inflammation.

[00:24:06] Kelly LeVeque: You want inflammation for healing. And, um, with those types of ratios, we’re, we’re down the rabbit hole towards. It’s chronic lifestyle diseases and inflammation.

[00:24:15] JJ: I had no idea I’d gotten into the 40 to 1 range. I knew, I knew we were at 20 to 1, and I was like, oh my gosh, but 40 to 1? And I just did an omega quant.

[00:24:27] JJ: Did one with my husband and my son too just to see where everybody was and that’s an easy thing that you can do. They’re under a hundred bucks that will look at your all your fatty acids, but specifically give you an omega 6 to omega 3 ratio to see where you’re at. And then if you’re overloaded, Um, it takes a bit to correct because you’ve got to, you know, you’ve got these things stored.

[00:24:50] JJ: So you’ve got to give it a little bit of time and kind of push more on the threes, but makes a big difference. So that’s very cool. Since we kind of skirted around it, let’s get into blood sugar. And, um, specifically, you know, again, if you’re eating protein first, if you’re eating by your fab four, eating by, you know, My trifecta plate, which is protein, fat, and fiber.

[00:25:13] JJ: We’re going to have good blood sugar control, but how, like, how critical is it? What made you look at this as such a big lever? Why is this something people need to pay attention to? Big importance too.

[00:25:24] Kelly LeVeque: Yeah. Well, when we see an increase in blood sugar, um, and you can, if you were getting a blood test, you’re looking at your glucose, you can look at insulin levels, you can look at A1C, which is a snapshot of your 90 day blood sugar range.

[00:25:38] Kelly LeVeque: Um, what we see is an increase in blood sugar causes an increase in insulin. An increase in insulin creates an increase in inflammation. That increase in inflammation creates a Uh, decrease in sensitivity to insulin, decrease in sensitivity to leptin. It increases the chances that someone would develop prediabetes, uh, metabolic syndrome, and that inflammation is really just laying the foundation for chronic lifestyle diseases.

[00:26:04] Kelly LeVeque: And so we, it is normal for blood sugar to come up and come down, but with Kind of the sad American diet and all these acellular carbohydrates. And when I say acellular carbohydrates, these are processed carbohydrates that have been obliterated from their fiber cells. So when you talk about, you know, your trifecta plate, or I talk about the fab four, we’re talking about fiber whole foods.

[00:26:25] Kelly LeVeque: Um, and in a whole food, the fiber cell wraps up that sugar or starch, right? Whether it’s glucose, fructose, um, it’s wrapped up. And so we have to chew and digest through it to slowly release it. And that’s, I think, nature’s way of supporting our blood sugar balance. It’s, it truly slows it down. That fermentation happens in the gut with our microbes versus an acellular carbohydrate.

[00:26:51] Kelly LeVeque: Think rice flour versus rice. Um, high fructose corn syrup versus corn. These are highly processed. Concentrated carbohydrates that we aren’t really prepared to handle and they’re in our diet throughout our whole diet. The majority of, when we look at Americans, over 70 percent of the foods that they’re eating is highly processed and so that causes a major spike in blood sugar.

[00:27:16] Kelly LeVeque: If you think about, I always use the example of If you were to say, have rice and put it in a glass of water and try to see it dissolve, or verse rice crackers in a glass of water, it dissolves into a flour. And when you think about that lining, your epithelial lining, and how quickly it is being digested, the speed, uh, influences the spike.

[00:27:38] Kelly LeVeque: So the speed at which something is digested increases the spike and our pancreas overreacts. It releases all the nutrients. This is a big one. but it’s a blog that has tons and loads of insulin to bring that blood sugar down. And what we can see is a hypoglycemic reaction in clients who are trying to maybe eat healthy.

[00:27:53] Kelly LeVeque: Maybe they’re counting calories. They’re not focused on the macros. This is a big disservice because their blood sugar will spike and crash and intuitively eating quote unquote, they would intuitively eat their way into another spike and crash. all they would be craving is more sugar, more carbohydrates.

[00:28:09] Kelly LeVeque: And so leaning more towards whole foods and fiber wrapped. Cellular carbohydrates really helps us naturally elongate our blood sugar curve because that glucose is being released slowly through digestion and we’re protected by that fiber cell. So it’s, um, that’s one thing to consider when you’re thinking about carbohydrates and depending on someone’s workout and, and, um, you know, their activity levels, their genetics.

[00:28:35] Kelly LeVeque: Their hormones, that’s all going to influence how many, you know, their carbohydrate tolerance, but the reality is everyone’s plate should first be built by the things that science tells us we need from our food. Those essential amino acids, essential fatty acids, and then those fiber rich carbohydrates that slowly release our glucose.

[00:28:55] JJ: What are your recommendations for fiber and carbs each day? Like what’s your range? I know it varies with activity, but where’s your range?

[00:29:05] Kelly LeVeque: Yeah. Um, for me personally, I perform a lot better in the morning when I’m not overloading with carbohydrates. So I’m aiming for about 50 grams of protein and like an example breakfast for me might be, Ground beef with like an egg, a fourth to a half of an avocado.

[00:29:23] Kelly LeVeque: And then I’ll roll into lunch and kind of keep it lower carb, maybe a salad with a full chicken breast, homemade vinaigrette. I may do a light starch, like a butternut squash or something like that. And then I enjoy I’m, or maybe I’ll put some fruit on it and then I’ll enjoy my carbohydrates post workout in the evening, just based on my lifestyle with three young kids, I’m getting my workouts in in the early afternoon before pickup.

[00:29:48] Kelly LeVeque: I’m kind of,

[00:29:49] JJ: you’re getting your workouts in all the time with three young kids, working

[00:29:52] Kelly LeVeque: my schedule. Um, but you know, for me, I would say I’m at like six. 50 to 75 grams of carbohydrate based on my workouts. And I feel, I feel great with that. I know also that gluconeogenesis, which is the product, you know, the creation of glucose from protein really supports my blood sugar balance.

[00:30:13] Kelly LeVeque: If I’m eating enough protein, my carbohydrate, um, the quantity of carbohydrates in which I need to eat, I can really be flexible with that and, uh, and still feel great. So that’s, that’s kind of where I’m at and I use a continuous glucose monitor. And when we talk about, when we talk about glucose, I put a lot of my clients on levels, which is a continuous glucose monitor app tool.

[00:30:34] Kelly LeVeque: And when we look at, um, milligrams per deciliter, what used to be the range was a hundred or 80 milligrams per deciliter to, you know, 120 milligrams per deciliter was the healthy range. Now we see with really active adults and looking at the research, you know, it can be as low as. 65, 70 milligrams per deciliter to 110.

[00:30:57] Kelly LeVeque: And we, what we want to do is maximize energy, the energy that we have throughout the day, our ability to focus, um, our mood, and that’s all influenced by blood sugar. And so if we can keep a tighter range, Um, like a smaller spike and a slower crash, we’re looking to elongate it. So it’s not just about how high you go, it’s how fast does that spike happen and how slow does it come down.

[00:31:22] Kelly LeVeque: Because if we can keep that spike blunted but elongated over time by increasing our protein intake and mixing our plates with fat and fiber, which slow down the digestion of our meal, elongating it, we have more energy and we have Less need to snack. And that’s, that’s really my goal with clients is how do I get them in that healthy range where their fasting blood sugar is close to 75 milligrams per deciliter.

[00:31:48] Kelly LeVeque: They sleep really well. They have great energy and they’re getting the protein that they need over the day to keep them full between meals and hold onto that lean muscle mass.

[00:31:57] JJ: Yeah, we are so in alignment with this. And I think that whole, uh, the, the being able to make sugar from protein is just something people don’t think about.

[00:32:09] JJ: That’s just makes it easy. Like I pretty much eat protein and fat for breakfast and go off to the gym and feel great that way. You know, it’s. I do very similar to you with the carb side of things and rely more on protein and feel much better. And I’ve actually always been like that, except for a brief stint into veganism.

[00:32:29] Kelly LeVeque: I think what happens too is people don’t realize when you are eating carbohydrates, your, you might have great digestion that breaks those down really quickly and, and immobilizes them into your bloodstream. Um, but what if you have, What if you have insulin resistance and that blood sugar is hanging around in your bloodstream, creating inflammation, making you feel like you have brain fog, low energy.

[00:32:52] Kelly LeVeque: You’re not going to make it to your workouts. You’re not going to feel as energized. Whereas when you are relying on protein, your body is so in tuned and, and, you know, keeping track of your blood sugar and the available glucose. for your cells and for your energy levels that when it needs to, it’s so much better at creating glucose from stored amino acids in your liver than, than having to react to whatever you’re eating, which is, which is really cool.

[00:33:20] Kelly LeVeque: It’s the coolest part.

[00:33:22] JJ: This is what I love. And when we were talking about this offline, the difference between creating a diet like this with exercise, the things that make your insulin receptors work well, that keep your blood sugar stable versus. Using tricks, hacks to, you know, so that you can eat the things.

[00:33:40] JJ: And I’m like, yeah, but that doesn’t solve the problem. So can you talk a little bit about like, you know, what’s the difference between say eating those things? Like I can eat the cake if I have the apple cider vinegar type of technique.

[00:33:53] Kelly LeVeque: Yeah. Um, you know, I’ve been, we both have, I’m like, I’ve been in blood sugar for a long time.

[00:33:58] Kelly LeVeque: We’ve both been talking about macros and blood sugar balance for a very long time. And, and. There have been some awesome hacks that have come out of the research, but I think we can’t rely on the hacks to get us, it’s not a get out of jail free card. So some of the things that can support blood sugar balance would be like eating your carbohydrates last or having vinegar.

[00:34:20] Kelly LeVeque: With a high carbohydrate meal. And yes, it has shown some statistical significance in research. Um, in vinegar specifically, it’s acetic acid that lowers the absorption of carbohydrates in our meal. Um, or eating carbohydrates last. If you’re having protein, fat, and fiber first, you’re just slowing down the digestion of that sugar.

[00:34:42] Kelly LeVeque: Um, but like I said, it’s not a get out of jail free card. When it comes to the vinegar, I think, um, It’s a great addition. It’s a fermented food. It is giving you that acetic acid to slow down carbohydrate digestion, but it isn’t your ticket for dessert. When it comes to eating carbohydrates last, there was actually a research study earlier this year that talked about, um, it, it took a group of pre diabetic, Individuals and said, all we’re going to do is ask you to eat your carbohydrates last.

[00:35:11] Kelly LeVeque: And what it does, which people, I don’t think really understand about this hack is when you’re having carbohydrates last, it doesn’t take the carbohydrates away. If you had a cup of rice, you still have to digest. that entire cup of rice, it just means that that glucose is being absorbed slower if you’ve had protein, fat and fiber first, right?

[00:35:31] Kelly LeVeque: But your blood sugar is still going up over time. And so they took this group of diabetics and just had them have, or pre diabetics had them have this. Have their carbohydrates last. And it actually didn’t improve fasting glucose, insulin levels, or HOMA IR, which is a measure of insulin resistance. So it, even though it might have blunted the carbohydrate spike, it over time kept the glucose going up.

[00:35:59] Kelly LeVeque: And so it’s not going to reverse. It’s not going to lower insulin. It’s not going to improve their state. And we really have to say like, what is their carbohydrate tolerance? Because just having these carbs last, it, the body is over, it’s, it’s being flooded with glucose. And in reality, if they’re type two diabetic, I’ve worked with functional MDs for almost a decade now, we can get most of our patients who are pre diabetic off diabetic type two diabetes medications.

[00:36:30] Kelly LeVeque: With lifestyle interventions. And that actually means lifting some weights, sleeping well, and da, da, pulling some of those carbohydrates out of their diet. So it’s, it’s not, it’s not a get out of jail free card. You know, the recommendations to walk after a meal or that is high in carbohydrates. That is something that will support blood sugar over time because you’re, when you’re moving your body after you eat a high carbohydrate meal, you’re burning some of that glucose, bringing insulin levels and glucose levels down over time.

[00:37:05] JJ: What’s cool is if you eat protein first, likely you won’t want that, but you’ll be full. And that’s, that’s the big goal too. I find is if you’re eating protein, then your next thing is a lot of non starchy vegetables. Like you’re full.

[00:37:18] Kelly LeVeque: Yeah,

[00:37:18] JJ: you’re just full. And so then, and I like walking after meals just for the digestive aid too.

[00:37:25] JJ: It’s fantastic. Yeah. Um, one last one let’s tread into is intermittent fasting and where you are with, and I always say that, and I think the biggest challenge we have with intermittent fasting is the definition because I’m like, To me, intermittent fasting of 12 hours is normal eating. Right. So, you know, when I think of intermittent fasting or time restricted feeding, I’m looking more at are you doing one meal a day or, you know, eating within a really short window, um, or doing straight 24, 48, 72 hour fasting.

[00:38:00] JJ: So kind of what’s your feeling of all these different techniques and where they might have a role?

[00:38:05] Kelly LeVeque: Yeah. Um, it’s funny, OMAD, one meal a day. I remember, My nature of human health and disease teacher who was in his seventies at USC was Oma D and I had never heard of it. And I, you know, that was back in, in, I graduated college in 2005, so that was like 2004, 2005.

[00:38:22] Kelly LeVeque: And that was an anomaly. Wow. Um. It’s interesting. Uh, I feel like the longer I am a nutritionist, not just working with my podcast or writing books, but actually working with clients, I think I like to make that, um, different, like to be very clear that I work with clients and, um, intermittent fasting, uh, the more that I work with clients, the less aggressive I am, you know, over time.

[00:38:48] Kelly LeVeque: And that’s all about getting those basics, right? Because a lot of times I’ll sit down with clients and they want to do. And we’re going to talk about how to make all these sweeping lifestyle changes. They want to intermittent fast. They only want to eat two meals a day. They want to make all their meals.

[00:38:59] Kelly LeVeque: They never want to eat out. They’re never going to have a glass of wine ever again. And then it all kind of falls apart.

[00:39:04] JJ: And then a week later, they’re like, hell with that.

[00:39:07] Kelly LeVeque: You can’t get consistent like that. You’re right. We just can’t get consistent. And so I have. I have goals for those clients and, um, you know, not eating in a 12 hour window, like you said, is sort of normal eating.

[00:39:23] Kelly LeVeque: Um, but I have a sort of like a checklist for clients of the, the most science backed things that are going to be the biggest levers they can pull. Protein intake is number one there. Sleeping well and not eating super late at night is also going to have major benefits because you’re going to get, you’re going to digest that food.

[00:39:42] Kelly LeVeque: You’re not going to go to bed with high blood sugar. You’re going to get better sleep because of that. You’re going to have a better recovery from workouts, you know, moving your body. Keeping feeding to a 12 hour window. So a lot of times someone will want to fast and I’ll sit down with them and they’re having their first bite of food when they’re feeding, uh, you know, their kids or they’re heading to the, heading to the gym at 7am and they’re eating dinner with their husband at eight or nine o’clock at night after.

[00:40:08] Kelly LeVeque: People are asleep or their reservation was super late. And in reality, I always take people to 12 hours first and then I shrink it to 14. Say, how can you not eat for 14 hours? That’s, that’s a phenomenal benefit for insulin sensitivity, for also ensuring that if they are eating three meals a day, they’re able to meet that protein requirement first.

[00:40:32] Kelly LeVeque: And so that takes hierarchy over intermittent fasting to me because I’m looking for them to hold on to their metabolic currency, which is their muscle mass.

[00:40:42] JJ: Yes. And the other great thing is that allows you to have a life and have eat within a normal circadian rhythm.

[00:40:50] Kelly LeVeque: Right. I just say eat within the daylight hours.

[00:40:52] Kelly LeVeque: And if you’re looking for some quote unquote magic pills, you know, have a fast for 14 hours a day instead of 12.

[00:41:00] JJ: Yeah. I, I’m right there with you. I think about your professor at USC. I think, Oh my gosh, 70 years old. Oh, mad. Yikes.

[00:41:09] Kelly LeVeque: Yeah. I mean, he was, he wasn’t, uh, there wasn’t a lot of muscle mass there.

[00:41:15] Kelly LeVeque: We’ll put it that way. He was, uh, he was more frail. I’m sure that his. Glucose in A1c was perfect. Um, he focused a lot on that being, you know, a professor that taught us a lot about type 2 diabetes and, um, our pancreas and all of that. But, um, yeah, it’s not, it’s not how I want to be at 70. I want to be a lot stronger than that.

[00:41:38] JJ: Well, it’s like, that’s why you have to have that big picture. I love everything you’ve talked about because it’s so, okay, blood sugar balance is important. Insulin sensitivity is critical. Muscle mass is critical. Like you have to look at all of these things and I look at diets as tools and sure OMAD could help with insulin sensitivity, but at the expense of muscle.

[00:42:00] JJ: Right. And great muscle can really help with insulin sensitivity. So there’s. There’s better, probably healthier, safer ways to do things. Now I know, um, you have a guide for everybody, your Fab Four guide. I’m so excited your Fab Four is the, is the place thing that we do. We are so crazy in line. It’s fantastic.

[00:42:21] Kelly LeVeque: Yeah. No, I just. Um, the fab four guide is a two page guide on how to get you exactly what you need on your plate, the right portion sizes for your weight and age. And it gives recommendations based on, um, what’s easy. I think a lot of times, like we said, uh, if you are looking to meal prep or you’re downloading 20 new recipes for the week, we really need to simplify.

[00:42:47] Kelly LeVeque: Like, how can you make sheet pan dinners, a whole chicken, things that you can set it and forget it and have protein for the week. I mean, that is, that is key for me in my life and the majority of my very busy clients.

[00:43:00] JJ: Yes. I, I haven’t had anyone ever say to me, could you give me a really difficult recipe?

[00:43:05] JJ: I’d love to do that. It hasn’t happened yet. I don’t know. So I love that. I know you also, I’ve been following some of the stuff on Instagram. Don’t you do a bunch of sheet pan dinners?

[00:43:17] Kelly LeVeque: I do so many sheet pan dinners. I mean, I have three little kids, five and under, so this dinner needs to be ready in 20 minutes and, uh, and I need the fab four on their plate.

[00:43:28] Kelly LeVeque: So that’s how we get it done.

[00:43:29] JJ: Nice. Nice. All right, so that will be at jj virgin.com/kelly. It is K-E-L-L-Y. Tell us where else people can find you. ’cause you’ve got a lot of fun stuff going on and you’re a busy, busy mom too.

[00:43:42] Kelly LeVeque: Yeah, so I’m on Instagram and Facebook at Be Well by Kelly. Um, my website is Kelly Levek or be well by kelly.com.

[00:43:49] Kelly LeVeque: I have the Be Well by Kelly podcast. JJ was a guest. It was one of our favorite episodes. Mine for sure. Because you’re the goat. And I have, and built my business looking at you as an example and knowing that a career as a nutritionist outside of a clinical setting, outside of the USDA guidelines was possible.

[00:44:11] Kelly LeVeque: And so I’m forever grateful for you being a North Star. Thank you for having me on the podcast. Thank you for being a guest. Um, and definitely go listen to that episode. JJ shows up like she always does.

[00:44:23] JJ: Well, thank you for that. I didn’t expect that plug back. Uh, yes, you are doing amazing, amazing work. And I know you’re just, I mean, literally I look at you’re just getting started.

[00:44:33] JJ: You’re what? In your thirties? I wish. I am 40. I am officially 40. Oh my gosh. You’re 40 now. Okay. Well now you’re in powerful aging mode.

[00:44:44] Kelly LeVeque: I actually feel very, yeah. Laser focused and clear on what’s to come, so I’m very excited.

[00:44:51] JJ: Yeah, it’s a great time, I’ll say, to be in your 40s, like the information we now have.

[00:44:58] JJ: I am like more fired up now. Like I just turned 61 and I’m like, all right, now, now let’s really get the power training in. So, uh, I fully intend to be full, full court press in my eighties doing all of this. So thank you again. And jjvirgin. com forward slash Kelly, be sure to get, grab that guide and I’ll put all of your other channels up there too, so people can check them out.

[00:45:22] JJ: Thanks, JJ.

[00:45:27] JJ: Be sure to join me next time for more tools, tips, and techniques you can incorporate into everyday life to ensure you look and feel great and are built to last. Check me out on Instagram, Facebook, and my website, jjvirgin. com. And make sure to follow my podcast at subscribetojj. com so you don’t miss a single episode.

[00:45:50] JJ: And hey, if you’re loving what you hear, don’t forget to leave a review. Your reviews make a big difference in helping me reach more incredible women just like you to spread the word about aging powerfully after 40. Thanks for tuning in and I’ll catch you on the next episode.

[00:46:16] JJ: Hey, JJ here. And just a reminder that the Well Beyond 40 podcast offers health, wellness, fitness and nutritional information. Thanks That’s designed for educational and entertainment purposes only. You should not rely on this information as a substitute for, nor does it replace, professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

[00:46:33] JJ: If you have any concerns or questions about your health, you should always consult with a physician or other health care professional. Make sure that you do not disregard, avoid, or delay obtaining medical or health related advice from your healthcare professional because of something you may have heard on the show or read in our show notes.

[00:46:49] JJ: The use of any information provided on the show is solely at your own risk.
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