ATHE_Transcript_Ep 438_Shivan Sarna
JJ Virgin: [00:00:00] Hey, this is JJ Virgin. Welcome. And thanks so much for joining me. This is ask the health expert here. I put the power of health in your hands and give you access to the top. People in health and wellness. In each episode, I share safe ways to get healthy, lose weight, heal your gut detox and lots more.
So if you want to get healthy and get off the dieting for life, merry-go-round, I'll give you strategies that will help you look and feel better fast.
All right. I am super excited about today's interview. I have Shivan Sarna with me. She's the author of healing, SIBO. She's a TV host and the creator of the SIBO SOS summits and community, the digestion SOS documentary series, the gut microbiome rescue summit, the lymphatic rescue scum at the dental health connection summit and the chronic condition [00:01:00] research 5 0 1 C3 to further research underfunded medical conditions.
And you're going to be blown away by her story, but more blown away by What can cause SIBO, I just, I had to get back up. I've kind of fell on the floor when she was talking. And then I thought, I, I need to order a test quickly. So she'll tell her story, but basically she had a lifetime of health issues and she just made the decision.
She was going to figure it all out. And now she's going to share that information with other, she does a lot of great research. She does a lot of great interviews. And she gave us so much value in this. I am so excited to share it with you, especially to really kind of break down SIBO, which still is relatively new out there.
People don't understand what it is. I didn't know what it was till I encountered it with some of my clients who had weight, loss, resistance, and until we handled this. Nothing was changing. So [00:02:00] pretty fascinating, but I wasn't aware of some of the things that can cause it. And I'm not telling you, you have to listen.
It's it's this is definitely one you're going to want to take notes on. She also has her SIBO SOS guide that you can grab for free at jjvirgin.com/SIBOSOS thats s I B O S O S. So make sure you grab that as well. All right, I'll be right back with Shivan.
Shivan Sarno. Welcome to the show. Hi,
Shivan Sarna: JJ. So good to see you so good to be here. Let's talk SIBO and fun
JJ Virgin: SIBO. Cause I know that this is why SIBOs controversial is beyond me, but you know, I know it can even be a little controversial. So I really want to unpack SIBO. I love to know how you got to be. So into this, [00:03:00] like becoming the expert on SIBO, what, what led you to this?
Shivan Sarna: Well, I've probably had it since I was five. I went to India with my parents on a, their business was importing and I went, you know, along on a buying trip cause I was five and got really sick with food poisoning, came home back to New York city and. We at Dalton fancy school, we went on a country field trip and we went to a farm in upstate New York and we milk cows.
And it was like city slickers. It was really cute and fun. And when the teacher wasn't looking, a couple of us were like, oh, wonder what it tastes like. And we tasted the milk. Damn. If I didn't get sick, I had these episodes as a young person of getting food poisoning, which is the number one underlying cause of IBS and SIBO with really?
Wow. Yes. That is the big thing I want to show.
JJ Virgin: Wow! That's the, that is a mic dropper. Holy smokes. Why
Shivan Sarna: is that? It [00:04:00] is because of the antibodies that your body produces to the e-coli and the Klebsiella and the other things that cause food poisoning, they do something called molecular mimicry, and they can use the sweeping wave of the small intestine known as the migrating motor complex MMC for short.
And because they look so similar. Those antibodies confuse it, which is obviously layman's terms. And so that sweeping motion doesn't sweep out. It allows the small intestine to become like what I call a microbrewery and to ferment your food with either the methane producers or the hydrogen producers.
So the hydrogen sulfide producers, and which would normally just like move out. Right. But because you're migrating motor complexes and sweeping them out, they hang out there. They eat your food. They fart it out as either any of those gasses I just said, and that's what leads to bloating, constipation, diarrhea, alternating constipation, or diarrhea, and a variety of other things that really should try to get this [00:05:00] resolved as soon as possible, because it can lead to a lot of other health issues down the road, and it's getting studied more and more.
So it is caused by something else, but it also causes other things.
JJ Virgin: Well, I'm just blown away about this. Wow. Okay.
Shivan Sarna: Right. Thank you. Thank you for having that moment with me and really hearing that because I literally just read a blog from a very well-respected probiotic company, not microbiome labs. Cause he knows.
But they were saying, you know, IBS has unknown causes and I'm like shouting at my computer screen now. Right.
JJ Virgin: It just makes you realize then that. If you've had food poisoning, and I'm just thinking of all the times that I've had food poisoning, right. That cause you don't think about it, you think, oh, I had food poisoning and now I'm fine.
You know? And, and so now what it sounds like as if you have food poisoning, you actually need to actively recover. Like you just don't go I throw up [00:06:00] it's out. Right. And you know, maybe I need some electrolytes, but you don't think you have to actually repair anything.
Shivan Sarna: You know, and for some people with their immune system, they might be fine.
Their microbiome might be so robust that the, you know, gatekeepers can keep the Ecoli Klebsiella. Which Dr. Mark Pimintel from Cedars-Sinai has proven are the main bad players. Maybe they can keep them in check, but when they're allowed to overgrow, and that also means, you know, the RKI, which is the intestinal methanagen
known as methane SIBO, but it's just a nomenclature change happening in the midst. But when like other, like you and I go out to dinner and we have summer Bach with us, right. And we all eat the salad and you eat it and you're fine, summer eats it. And she's like, oh, I feel a little upset or she's totally fine.
And I eat it and I'm like, oh, I am sick. Your immune system. And microbiomes might just be powerful enough to overtake whatever was naughty and. [00:07:00] Having been exposed to food poisoning. So many times are more susceptible to it. So the more food poisoning you have, the more susceptible to it, you become, and there are other underlying causes, but this is the big reveal.
This is the big surprise for so many people. There are adhesions and endometriosis and antlers Danlos, the collagen disorder. Scleroderma and opioid use and traumatic brain injuries that can, and thyroid conditions that can all contribute to the slowing of the migrating motor complex, but most, very valid, but most people who have IBS as a majority are experiencing post-infectious IBS, which is.
JJ Virgin: Wow. Yeah. Okay. This is, this is, this is, this is like literally again, draw jaw-dropping. I've never heard this. This is incredible. So let's unpack what SIBO is. Then since we just talked about this as a root cause I want to know what other root causes, but [00:08:00] before we go there for people listening, what is SIBO?
How the heck do you know if you have.
Shivan Sarna: Great. So SIBO is small intestine, bacterial overgrowth or intestinal overgrowth, and they're just generated by two alternative sort of microbes. And so are you bloated? Do you have constipation? Do you have alternating constipation and diarrhea? Do you have diarrhea?
And do you have rosacea? Do you have restless leg syndrome? And then, you know, a lot of people with GERD feel like it's connected. Just that. Do you have IBS? Have you gone to the doctor and he, or she said to you, yeah, you got IBS eat low FODMAP SIA. Okay. Bye-bye, it's a diagnosis of exclusion like that, which I was told and given an antidepressant and told to run three.
Yeah, and I, yes. Well, I think that that doctor was trying to get [00:09:00] my serotonin levels balanced, but he didn't say that to me. And so I just thought he thought I was being like, you know, a hysterical woman. He told me to run three miles. Well, I also had mold exposure from the TV station for 20 years. So, but didn't know it at the time.
So. The thought of getting up and running anywhere other than the doctor not happening. Cause I was so inflamed and so sick, but I'd had SIBO way before the mold. The mold just makes it harder to clear our
JJ Virgin: doctors now recognizing that this is a thing and testing for it because I, you know, I still, it still seems like one that people don't really understand or believe is.
Shivan Sarna: Correct. There is a larger and larger population believing that it's real because the data is there. The science is there. If someone says that it isn't real with all due respect, I really want them to dig into Dr. Pimentel's science. And then the hundreds of other research studies around the world that are supporting these premises.
So. [00:10:00] It is real. There are tests that you can do and there, you know, SIBO, breath tests, lactulose as being the substrate. You drink the substrate, you after a certain fast and special diet for 24 hours there's the fastest 12 hours. And then you blow into these tubes periodically sort of schedule over two or three.
You can do the test at home. There is one test that now tests for all three gases, which is a big development, and that is trio smart by Gemelli labs. And you can even, you know how like you can go online, I guess, and buy Viagra after you fill out a questionnaire, even though it's prescription. Well, for a small fee.
You can fill out this questionnaire. And have a chit chat with a doctor and get like screened and yes, they will send you the test kit, not probably in New York it's to me,
JJ Virgin: so ridiculous that we have to have a prescription for a lab test anyway. It's like, you know, and so I I'm really pro direct to consumer lab testing.
[00:11:00] Silly ridiculous.
Shivan Sarna: Lactulose is a sugar that is used just because the body doesn't absorb it in other countries, you can go into like their version of CPS and get it anyway. So it is a breath test. You can do an aspirate when you're doing, you know, an endoscopy colonoscopy type, but you know, that is like a lovely gold standard.
But for the rest of us doing a SIBO breath test is.
JJ Virgin: Okay. So it's something you could do at home. You can order this test online. We'll put that in the notes. That's amazing. So you get diagnosed, first of all, like beyond the food poisoning, what are, what are the reasons people get SIBO and what are some of the symptoms like?
What would be, you said constipation, diarrhea bloating, bloating, bloating, bloating. And you know what I've seen bloating, whether you ate or not, you just bloat Any other key symptoms. I
Shivan Sarna: mean, a weird ferritin levels, weird iron levels will weird B12 [00:12:00] levels because the theories are that the bacteria eats the iron and that it doesn't allow your body to absorb the B B vitamins properly.
So there there's some other like, but that wouldn't be like, oh, that's weird on my blood test. I think I have SIBO. There are other things that mimic SIBO like parasites and candida. So the symptoms are identical. So I always say test don't guess and therefore, like, let's say you think you have SIBO and you get a negative test.
Okay. Did you do the prep diet and the fast properly? And then did you do the test tubes properly and then, okay, it's negative. Cool. Go get a parasite test and not from your usual quest and lab Corp. If those are positive, they're positive. If they're negative, it doesn't mean that you don't have, right. So you have parawellness, you have parasite testing, you have your GI map.
Those are, you know, full of great information. And then you know, check for your candida overgrowth because those two mimic it. But the other thing is JJ. I hear stories very rarely. Thank goodness. [00:13:00] Bloating can also be caused by ovarian cancer and other more serious things. So please don't let this go unchecked.
JJ Virgin: Yeah. I mean, bloating, constipation, diarrhea, are not things to just let
Shivan Sarna: go. Right. And we normalize them because we're not talking about them to our boyfriend, girlfriend, family. Like, we're just like hoping the loose top you're wearing hides it, not
JJ Virgin: only that, and this is what's so ridiculous. So you can't, you know, they, they don't want you to be able to order lab tests, but yet you can go to the pharmacy and buy every single OTC thing to help with diarrhea, constipation, gas, and bloating.
I mean, it's like the biggest aisle in the pharmacy. And this is really problematic because you do not want to just cover this up. It is a
Shivan Sarna: huge, huge business. And I, you know, I acknowledge conspiracies like that because they are real, but I don't spend a lot of time ruminating and I just want to fix things.
But yeah, it's a big business. So the, what would it look like? Okay. I asked Dr. Pimentel this I went for a big surgery. Let's say, [00:14:00] let's say you're in deep anesthesia, then you get out and you're on pain meds because you had your knee replaced place or whatever. Could that lead to. Intestinal overgrowth in the small intestine.
The answer is yes, because that deep anesthesia really closes things down. And then the opioids or the pain meds inhibit the migrating motor complex. And so you could literally get like, wow, you know, I had that surgery and my knees great, but my guts kind of weird, or I had that food poisoning and I feel better, but I still feel like a little funny.
Those are signs. Third of the people that get, you know, SIBO, get it cleared up with one round of treatment which is exciting, but for people who have maybe adhesions or any, you know, thyroid issues, it may take multiple
JJ Virgin: rounds. Mm. All right. We're going to talk about how you clear it up. I will be right back.
Stay with me.
All right. So I know I'd left a cliffhanger [00:15:00] because the most important thing here is, okay, now you can figure out if you've had it. You've it seems like to me, and I didn't know that about surgery either. Like, so if you've had surgery, if you've had food poisoning, like there are so many reasons to check this out.
If you've got any of these symptoms and it's an easy thing to do now, someone checks it out and they discover they have it now.
Shivan Sarna: Okay. So. You can get on a low fermentation diet like Dr. Alison C Becker's SIBO specific food guide. And what that does is, and this is so important, it does not cure SIBO it controls the symptoms.
So you can feel pretty miserable, right? Inflamed, you know, uncomfortable gut tummy issues, hyper visceral hypersensitivity is very common. And, but if you can control that fermentation load. Which is, you know, unfortunately fibers. So when I did my book, I put all the recipes in as vegetarian, because I'm a vegetarian, but [00:16:00] also like, if you want to add protein, go for it.
But the hardest part is doing the veggies and stuff because they feed off of the fiber. So if you can get your symptoms under control, that's like super relief right there. And that can be done through diet, but it does not cure SIBO reduce the overload of the bacteria. Then you do a treatment. There are two, three options.
One is the elemental diet, and this is a liquid diet, which sounds insane. You do it temporarily. It is originally the amino acids for feeding. And it tastes super disgusting. It was Vivonex by Nestle for ages, not really designed to be consumed, to taste it's tastes like vomit, but then companies got like integrative therapeutics, Dr.
Michael Ruscio, they made formulations that are actually quite, I'm going to go with tasty, which is a little bit of a push, but do it. And so you do that for 14 to 17 days, and it's very important to retest to find out whether or not it's really down enough and. What that's doing is [00:17:00] starving the bacterial overgrowth.
So it gets digested so quickly in the upper part of the gut that it doesn't even get a chance to go and feed the. So then after every treatment that is taking to a negative SIBO breath test, you need to do a prokinetic, which might, which stimulates and is like a symphony for your migrating motor complex.
And that's what helps to reduce relapse because people will say, oh, you know, it comes back all the time. Well, a lot of those people are not doing. Prokinetic, which is the key to do preventing relapse and is beautiful at that job. And there are a couple of natural ones like the gingers and the modal prose.
And then there's some prescription ones like Prucalopride Zelnorm. Then just wanted to throw that in because that little part about the prokinetics works for every treatment style
JJ Virgin: and ProConnect so, so you use an elemental diet, then you do this pro or whatever it is that you did to reduce it.
And the pro kinetics, what exactly, what exactly [00:18:00] is this and what exactly does it do?
Shivan Sarna: It helps your migrating motor complex do that sweeping motion. So if you're migrating motor complex is impaired because of an adhesion pulling it out or scleroderma, or you've been on opioids for so long, it just is like, you know, gotten tired and it doesn't really work that well, then it helps with sweeping the motion, getting that migrating motor complex to sweep out the small intestine.
It's like a micro parasol.
JJ Virgin: Is there a way to know if that's working or not? Yeah.
Shivan Sarna: Great question. The not really the best way to know is if you don't get your SIBO back, which is not ideal, obviously Iberogast another good one that is kind of a miracle. It helps people with diarrhea, constipation, and the migrating motor complex.
That's like a little bit more of an obscure one, but like a natural path secret trick. And it also helps the nausea. So the other two treatments are antibiotics, but not what you think, [00:19:00] because I thought, oh, heavens no, not that. And then herbal antimicrobials. So for the antibiotics, it is the drug Rifaximin that is for the hydrogen producers, which is also Xifaxan.
And it's what you get for travelers. So you see this little sort of pattern, like yeah. The overgrowth and then If you have the , which is the more constipation prone and the what's known as IMO previously known as methane SIBO, you add either neomycin or metronidazole and you have to do it in combination.
So what's cool about Xifaxan or Rifaximin is that it stays in the small intestine and actually. The microbiome it's wild and wonderful. And you can do multiple rounds
JJ Virgin: without when it's going in there. It's not hurting any of your good bacteria.
Shivan Sarna: Right. So the the other two, like [00:20:00] the Flagyl and the excuse me, not Flagyl, but the neomycin I Metronidazole those are like going to nuke it, but you know, like you got figure out what your target is here.
So. Once, once you do a treatment, which is usually two weeks, you want to retest. And what's weird. What was weird for me when I first did it, I was like, I'm used to taking one round of antibiotics and having my UTI go away or whatever, fill in the blank. And this is about doing multiple rounds, trying to reduce that bacterial load and to get it to a place where you have this negative SIBO breath test.
And even then you may have to like work on gut rebuilding and, you know, be careful with your diet and do that prokinetic and within 30 days, many people have their symptoms resolved. But so that's, and that's a two week program and okay. Did you repetitions of that? And then there is the herbals, which is really cool because the natural paths have worked very [00:21:00] closely with major medical, traditional leaders.
And a lot of that is because Dr. C Becker and Dr. Pimentel had like done conferences where they were both speakers. It's, it's been a beautiful collaboration in many ways. And that is herbal combinations of berberine and oil of oregano and alliciin the, you know, active ingredient in garlic, but don't eat some garlic cause that can mess you up.
Cause it's high FODMAP and you will ferment, but allicin which is the active ingredient that works like a charm. There is Candibactin AR and BR. There is, you know, neme is a little booster on top of all of that. So those have really actually been studied really nicely and shown to give great results, but that's a four week protocol.
Good news. You don't need to script bad news. It takes you a little bit longer. And is it nuking the microbiome? Probably a little bit, but not necessarily as much as some of the neomycin and the metronidozole. [00:22:00] And because, I mean, I always say speak with your practitioner, but sometimes you're gonna have to educate that practitioner, but if you're like, well,
JJ Virgin: shouldn't, they just find a practitioner, they don't have to educate?
Shivan Sarna: That would be great. And that is our goal. No believe me, but there, yeah, you live in the middle of who knows where and telemedicine is not an option for you. And you've got a doctor who will write you a script for a rifaximin but they're not quite sure of the dosage, et cetera. You know, I would walk into the office with.
And God bless Dr. Michael Shullman, Largo, Florida. Shout out to you, man. He was like, oh, thanks. They didn't teach me this in medical school. Yeah, get where's my script pad. And awesome.
JJ Virgin: If you can't find someone who knows about it already, then at least find someone who wants to learn about. Yes. Didn't you write a book on this?
I thought you did it so they can just can't they just take your book in to the doctor. Yeah. You
Shivan Sarna: absolutely could. Healing SIBO. You absolutely could. And Dr. Pimentel's new book just came out [00:23:00] like last week and it is the microbiome collect connect. Excuse me, connection. Your guide to IBS, SIBO and low fermentation eating..
I mean between these two books, you're in fantastic shape seriously.
JJ Virgin: And you could theoretically, cause you could test at home. You can do this purely at home. And if you can't fix it with either doing the elemental diet and the prokinetic, the natural ones or just, or doing the herbal plants. Then you would go to the doctor, I would assume.
And with the herbal plan, what do you need to do after the herbal plan to restore your gut microbiome? Because it's going to do a little bit wreak, a little havoc in there, isn't it?
Shivan Sarna: Yeah. Yeah. So what you would want to do is test after your month, see how you're doing. If you're negative, awesome sauce. If not, maybe do another couple of weeks or a couple of rounds.
It depends on how high your gas levels. And then you want to get on that prokinetic and some are not prescription. Like I listed both before and then
JJ Virgin: [00:24:00] listed ginger. What other nondescriptions.
Shivan Sarna: Iberogast, which is like an herbal formulation. It has like Russian writing you get on it serious.
JJ Virgin: Well, at least you don't have to buy it with Bitcoin off somewhere, which I've had to do with some of my stuff. It's like, oh my gosh. Yeah. Russian peptides.
Shivan Sarna: Yeah. You gotta do what you gotta do. So. You can do that for your herbals and then, okay. So rebuilding the microbiome. So, so the specialist that I've been talking to for these several years now, we started, I started in 2015.
The question for my mind was like, shouldn't I get my microbiome in really good shape first? Or like, shouldn't I get on a probiotic ASAP. PDQ right. Like, like to rebuild it now, there are different theories and people have different experiences. I know some people they get on mega spore and they're like, oh, I'm all.
Well, because that's what they needed. Or like, oh, I'm on a probiotic and first three days, I'm not sure if I can carry on, [00:25:00] oh, I stuck through it and I did it just a little bit less. And now two weeks and I feel amazing. Other people are like, this is not for me. I'm going to wait until I clear the SIBO.
So there's some controversy about when timing, but it's also so personal. So Dr. Pimentel is actually, by the way, like he doesn't pay me or anything. I'm just like, oh my gosh, like, I'm thinking like Nobel, you know, Like medical prizes in the future because he and Dr. Ali Rezai are mapping the small intestine microbiome.
So all that stuff that happened in the nineties for the large intestine they're actually like showing that it was not quite what we all thought and that the small intestine, by the way, has an entirely different microbiome than the large intestine. Fantastic. And that once you resolve the SIBO, that the disproportionate levels of the e-coli and the Klebsiella, for example, go back down to normal because the rest of the, without necessarily, like, he's not a huge probiotic fan without necessarily doing that, [00:26:00] but simply having them lower the homeostasis of the microbiome and its brilliance often comes back into balance.
So it's super cool. It's very exciting. And the prokinetics, as I mentioned, herbal, Iberogast and other other, you know, easy to acquire ingredients are out there that I, and the oh, this is good meal spacing. So JJ, you cannot. Have your migrating motor complex migrating motor complex work. If you have food in your tummy, if food in your stomach calories taken in, we'll turn off the sweeping motion of the migrating motor complex, because it's saying, Hey food, I don't want to sweep that out too soon.
And so you go for four or five hours if possible, without any calories. And that also encourages the sweeping
JJ Virgin: motion. This makes me super happy because it's yet another reason to stop snacking. [00:27:00] And you just wonder if you know, we've just compiled the problem since the, I was looking at, when did, when did all of this really bad misinformation start?
I think it was probably the eighties. It was all the, remember the big fat free I was living in LA at the time, I was actually personal training people out of the Pritikin center, where they were teaching you to eat six times a day. And to get your fat down to 10% of your calories. So you can imagine, you know, you were eating all day long, cuz you were starving, but you know, you just wonder if that just compiled the problem too you know,
Shivan Sarna: and then you hear about the intermittent fasting and how people's lives are so transformed for a variety of reasons.
And maybe they're SIBO clears. I mean, I feel better too. Right? So the other thing is I've managing mine. So I do have those antibodies and. Over time. Sometimes those antibodies just resolve, which is exciting and hopeful. My company is called chronic condition rescue because when I was in that moldy building, I had [00:28:00] alopecia, I had psoriasis.
I had SIBO, I I was old lime, old BV, hot mess. And I was like, I want to tell, I'm figuring all this out and I'm gonna tell the world. So it's chronic condition rescue SIBO. SOS was my first project and it's like nine summits later now on all these things like gall bladder and lymphatic system and fascia and chronic pain is coming up.
And what happened for me was I got my whole situation under control. So an unmanaged chronic condition can lead to true living tragedy, whereas a managed chronic condition. You can feel a hundred percent. And so I had to get out of my head of this. Like I want to be cured in the traditional sense. And just when I got through that grief that it wasn't going to be like, you know, perfect on paper.
I was like, I'm free. It was beautiful. So this is a message of hope for people.
JJ Virgin: It's it's interesting too, because you know, you [00:29:00] describe this as, when I was five years old, this happened, and then this happened. And I remember hearing, I'm trying to remember who it was. I think it might've been Bob Roundtree talking about, like, if you're, if you did antibiotics in the first year, two first, two years of life, like.
Gut microbiome is like going to be messed up forever. Like, okay. You know we have these things that sure. We might not ever be able to cure them, but if we've gotten everything, so we feel great. Okay. Cool. You know, and you might just find that certain foods like just don't work for you right. Are going to be problematic.
So, but I think it's really interesting because you know, the fact that things like food poisoning and surgery could Be, you know, the precursors to this, and this is not talked about is so key critical, you know, it's it, because
Shivan Sarna: it seriously, I had a nail tech that I would go to religiously every two weeks.
Cause I had like to have TV lady [00:30:00] hands for selling jewelry. And I'm like, I spent more time with her than I like did many people I know and love. And she's a lovely person. But two years in, we started talking about our health and I'm like, wait a minute, you have gut issues. Wait, I'm like building this platform to teach people about gut health.
And she taught me some things and I taught her some things and we just don't usually talk about it. Right. So I wanted to open that conversation up. I am not into poop emojis. I'm not into that. I'm not going to like, you know, that's just not me. I am into like, For the body and let's be grown-ups and get this out there.
And great news is that, you know, we have millions and millions of downloads, which is just so fricking rewarding, but it's only the tip of the iceberg, right. Only the tip. So what you learned today, what you learned from. Tell everybody who will listen to you, they will thank you for it.
JJ Virgin: Well, and there's just no reason to suffer.
And I think that's the most important thing, [00:31:00] especially, especially so many of these things that no one's going to talk about. I still remember I was walking through a department store when I was in college and short-cutting through this department store to get back to school after teaching an aerobics class.
And this girl asked me when I was due.
Shivan Sarna: Oh, JJ, you never forget those moments.
JJ Virgin: Never. First of all, it made me go. I'll never ask someone that ever, unless like, unless they're wearing a shirt that says baby, and as an arrow, I'm not asking, but you know, I mean, those types of things where you feel shame and like why I didn't do anything that would have caused that, you know, it wasn't like I was sitting there going over to the corner donut shop and eating 20 donuts.
Right. So. It is interesting. I love the fact that you've got a guide. You're giving everybody so you can download this immediately and get some information here. Of course, you're going to want to get healing SIBO as well, but tell us what's in the SIBO IBS [00:32:00] SOS
Shivan Sarna: guide. It's basically an overview of some of the things I just talked about and how to get the next steps for testing and some resources, and just walk into your doctor's office with this guide that will really help.
I mean, it's just a beginning of this conversation, but it does talk about how IBS is primarily caused by a food poisoning and then a description of the different types. It's a, it's a primer. It is a great springboard for next steps.
JJ Virgin: Nice. It really feels like to me, if you've got those symptoms that you should do an at home tests, there's no reason not to that I can see.
And like, you would definitely want to know if this is an issue. So I super appreciate you making it so simple for people to do that. You'll be able to get that jjvirgin.com/SIBOSOS. So that's S I B O S O S. And you'll I know you're probably trying to scribble notes and write down some og these things.
You're like, I don't know how to spell it. Don't worry. It's in there. [00:33:00] And then I'd also recommend grabbing healing SIBO as well by Shivan Sarna. And again, www.JJvirgin.com/SIBOSOS. All right. Well, thank you so much for it. Like this was a very enlightening interview to say the least holy smokes,
Shivan Sarna: JJ, for all you do, and for having me today
JJ Virgin: so you see what I mean here? Like I had no idea that surgeries and food poisoning could cause SIBO. So I'm definitely ordering the test. And I would highly recommend you, you, if you have any of those symptoms and have been in any of those situations, do too. And again, make sure that you grab her free guide.
JJvirgin.com/SIBOSOS. And remember to subscribe. So you don't miss any of this amazing content. See you next time.[00:34:00]