743_Dr Will Cole
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[00:00:00] JJ: I’m J. J. Virgin, PhD dropout, sorry mom, turned four time New York Times bestselling author. I’m a certified nutrition specialist, fitness hall of famer, and I speak at health conferences and trainings around the globe, but I’m driven most of all by my insatiable curiosity and love of science. to keep asking questions, digging for answers and sharing the information that I uncover with as many people as I can.

[00:00:33] JJ: And that’s where you come in. That’s why I created the Well Beyond 40 podcast to synthesize and simplify the science of health into actionable strategies to help you thrive. In each episode, we’ll talk about what’s working in the world of wellness, from personalized nutrition and healing your metabolism to powerful aging and prescriptive fitness.

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[00:01:20] JJ: com and start your ad free experience today. Welcome back to Well Beyond 40. Today’s episode is going to challenge the way you think about food, health, and what’s really in the products. that we trust. Well, maybe not trust much anymore. We’re sitting down today with Dr. Will Cole, a leading functional medicine expert and someone I have deep respect for.

[00:01:45] JJ: He’s been on the front lines of the health revolution, advocating for cleaner food, better nutrition, and a more conscious approach to wellness. Dr. Will just got back from taking on Kellogg’s over artificial food dyes, which have been banned in other countries, but, strangely enough, they’re still being pushed on our kids here in the U.

[00:02:03] JJ: S. I said that a little facetiously, I admit it. So he’s going to be in studio with me and he’s going to pull back the curtain on what’s really happening in the food industry and why it matters for your hormones, your brain health, and your overall vitality and longevity. We’re also going to dive into how stress and emotional health impact gut health, the dangers of ultra processed foods, and why Setting boundaries might just be the best medicine for your nervous system.

[00:02:30] JJ: I will tell you that when I think of Dr. Will Cole, I think of Jomo and you’re going to hear why and what that is in this episode. Plus we’re unpacking the shocking truth about food policies in the US, why thousands of additives are approved here. But banned in other countries how the SNAP program is fueling chronic disease and why the health of our most vulnerable communities is at risk.

[00:02:53] JJ: And if you’ve ever wondered why big food execs won’t even feed their kids the products they sell, you’re about to find out. So get ready for an eye-opening conversation that might just change the way you look at what’s on your plate. Let’s get started.

[00:03:19] JJ: Dr. Will Cole, I could not be happier to be sitting here with you. Thank you so much. Thanks for joining

[00:03:25] Dr. Will Cole: me and like coming out when I was in town.

[00:03:27] JJ: I know. Well, I actually changed a bunch of things because I’m like, Will Cole is in my. neighborhood. I’m here.

[00:03:35] Dr. Will Cole: Thank you so much. That means a lot. Thank

[00:03:36] JJ: you. Well, especially since you just came back from Washington DC, you went to the Maha inaugural ball.

[00:03:44] JJ: So you got five hours of sleep last night because I was like going, Oh my gosh, but you were at the Maha inaugural ball. You just came back from Washington DC. D. C. You were in D. C. just a little while ago, too.

[00:03:57] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah.

[00:03:57] JJ: Uh, which I’d love to talk about, because you were there taking on Kellogg’s.

[00:04:01] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah. Well, we actually flew out to, for Kellogg’s, we flew out to Battle Creek, Michigan.

[00:04:08] Dr. Will Cole: We went to Kellogg’s headquarters.

[00:04:10] JJ: Oh, you did?

[00:04:11] Dr. Will Cole: Yes. Tell me about it. So, that was really surreal. So, Vani Hari, Food Babe, do you know Vani? Yeah, she’s great. I mean, she’s been in our space for a long time and been a food activist for years and, um, she and Jason Karp, he was another food activist, head of Human Co.,

[00:04:30] Dr. Will Cole: now major owner at True Food Kitchen, and Hugh Chocolate, for people that don’t know him, he’s a great guy. So, these are people that I’ve known for a long time, and Callie Means, and Josh. So, anyways, they said come out, so I I, I went to Battle Creek, uh, Michigan, and we were really raising awareness around artificial food dyes in Froot Loops, which they said in, I think it was 2018 or something like that, that they were going to remove it by a certain date years ago.

[00:04:59] Dr. Will Cole: The date came and went, no such removal. Um, so we gave them hundreds of thousands. It was the largest food petition in American food history. Uh, saying these are parents, people, around the country that said we demand to follow through with your word. He said you’re gonna remove this. These artificial food dyes are highly regulated, outlawed, require warning labels in other countries, in the EU, in Canada, in Australia, New Zealand, India.

[00:05:30] Dr. Will Cole: Um, and, They didn’t accept the food petitions, they did, they kind of ignored us. Some, one of the employees put a sign out the window and said, Get off our lawn. This was all highly publicized, the media was all there. And it was, you know, I, I thought of the 18th century like parallels of of the Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI of, you know, let them eat their toxic food.

[00:05:54] Dr. Will Cole: It was kind of like that. Wow. With the American elite monarchs, basically, you know, these largely these people, because some of these people probably are, uh, I, I see a lot of people in mainstream industries like that as telehealth patients, them personally don’t eat these foods. They don’t feed their family.

[00:06:12] Dr. Will Cole: Fruit Loops, uh, the people that are working.

[00:06:14] JJ: I don’t understand the hypocrisy of that. Like, I couldn’t imagine working, you know, for Coca Cola and not allowing my kids to have Coca Cola.

[00:06:26] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah. Yeah. When that’s what the, really the mission was, at least for me, is to A, raise awareness. And I thought, okay, we’re in this little bubble, this little health bubble.

[00:06:36] Dr. Will Cole: But there are people, when I did that, friends of ours, friends of ours that know what I do, told my wife, they said, I didn’t know about artificial food dyes. I didn’t know that these cereals were, had the red dye 40 and red, the different artificial food dyes. We’re going to make our household artificial food dye free.

[00:06:56] Dr. Will Cole: So these are just, and these are people that you’d think tangentially, they know what I do. They would have heard me talk, but it was that their aha moment. So it, there’s a lot of people that don’t know in middle America that aren’t wellness aficionados. that, uh, needs to be informed, to have informed consent about this.

[00:07:14] Dr. Will Cole: And, um, the second reason that I think this is so important is that this disproportionately hurts poor people. Right. And people of color. Uh, because a lot of kids don’t, aren’t fed well at home. And they require, they depend on the public school system for their food. And these are the foods that are completely, uh, humans should not be consuming them, but yet they’re being fed to, they’re fed these foods in school.

[00:07:41] Dr. Will Cole: So it was really about that and saying, well, look, there’s always going to be customers for Kellogg’s, there’s always going to be customers for junk food industries, but can we make it at least equal playing field as other countries? And instead of artificial food dyes like it is here. In other countries, they color the cereals with fruit and vegetable extracts.

[00:08:01] Dr. Will Cole: So, yeah, that’s Is it just a lot more

[00:08:04] JJ: expensive to do

[00:08:05] Dr. Will Cole: it the right way? I don’t know if it’s a lot more expensive, but it hurts the bottom line. That’s why it’s not done. Is that, because Kellogg’s in those other countries do the fruit and vegetable extract. Because they don’t have

[00:08:16] JJ: a

[00:08:16] Dr. Will Cole: choice, right? Yeah, they don’t have a choice.

[00:08:18] Dr. Will Cole: And that is their position, is that until it’s the law of the land, which recently with Red Dye 3 Which isn’t Froot Loops, but Red Dye 3 is another junk food, packaged food. Um, now that it’s the law of the land with Red Dye 3, companies are going to have to shift in a few years, right, as this rules out.

[00:08:35] Dr. Will Cole: With Red Dye 40, Kellogg’s position is, until it’s the law of the land for these artificial food dyes, we’re going to follow the law of the land. And in these other countries it is, so we follow the rule, but in America Their reason is profits and kids. They said from a color testing standpoint the bright colors of the artificial food dyes Tests better and they prefer it, you know, so that it’s making forever kids prefer

[00:09:01] JJ: like my nickname growing up was poppy Not because I lived in California and it was the flower.

[00:09:06] JJ: It was because that was my favorite food. I mean, if you did this based on what kids prefer.

[00:09:12] Dr. Will Cole: Right.

[00:09:12] JJ: Could you imagine?

[00:09:13] Dr. Will Cole: Right. Well, and it’s like, it doesn’t actually change the taste. It’s not like that. It’s purely marketing. Um, but we know it causes behavioral problems in kids. I mean, you’d look at a significant number of kids have a diagnosable.

[00:09:28] Dr. Will Cole: Mental, emotional, behavioral problem, mental health issues and behavioral issues are about epidemic proportions. So this is criminal, really, what we know. And this isn’t a woo woo person on the fringe. This is the FDA’s equivalence in the EU, Australia, and Canada. This is their position. And we’re just saying, yeah, let’s take that cautionary position that even in these small doses, because that’s the argument.

[00:09:53] Dr. Will Cole: I thought, well, food dyes would bring people together, right? Because who’s going to argue for food dyes? There are people that will die on the artificial food dihyl because they just are contrarians by nature and they, if we say it, they have to be against it. And there’s people that say, well, the dose makes the poison and it’s a small amount and, uh, just have it.

[00:10:11] Dr. Will Cole: And I say to that, well, why did the FDA at this point, why are they outlawing red dye 3? Uh, if, you know, they are not doing this off of woo woo. They’re doing this off of the science that’s there and when you look at the epidemic rates of these chronic diseases and behavioral problems, there’s a reason for it and it’s multifaceted.

[00:10:30] Dr. Will Cole: It’s not just that food dies. Um, yeah, so that’s what happened in Battle Creek, Michigan. And then we celebrated, we celebrated at the Maha Inauguration Ball in D. C. just with where our community has gone. Um, and, you know, TBD, time will tell, but who would have thought that people in our community And now are going to be in key positions in determining food policy for the United States.

[00:10:57] JJ: What do you hope is going to happen in the next couple of years with this?

[00:11:01] Dr. Will Cole: I talked to Marty, um, who’s incoming.

[00:11:04] JJ: That is so exciting. Yeah,

[00:11:06] Dr. Will Cole: I mean, he’s in functional medicine. I mean, Marty is in functional medicine. He’s the incoming potential candidate for the FDA at the time of recording this. Has to be, you know, nominated and, uh, all of that with, with Congress.

[00:11:20] Dr. Will Cole: But, he, they are hopeful. They are hopeful that if they can get even half, because they know there’s, there’s some dark, disturbing, corrupt systems at play that really don’t want this to happen. But they’re hopeful, and they, they’re on the inside, I’m not. But I’m hearing from them that they are very hopeful of what they can achieve.

[00:11:42] Dr. Will Cole: So if they’re hopeful, I’m hopeful from what all signals that I’m hearing. Um, what can we get done in four years? And as we, you and I said before we started recording this, This isn’t political. It shouldn’t be political. It

[00:11:55] JJ: shouldn’t be. It’s been made political,

[00:11:57] Dr. Will Cole: which is a bipartisan human thing. Yeah. And people on the right and left are coming together on this.

[00:12:03] Dr. Will Cole: Bernie Sanders recently had a forum about these conversations, the chronic disease epidemic, and agrees with all of these things that’s talked, that’s been talked, uh, being talked about with Bobby and Marty and,

[00:12:18] JJ: Well, I mean,

[00:12:19] Dr. Will Cole: Oz.

[00:12:19] JJ: Bobby Kennedy. Is a long standing Democrat from a long standing Democratic

[00:12:25] Dr. Will Cole: family

[00:12:25] JJ: who’s now

[00:12:26] Dr. Will Cole: And I would assume most of the people in the Maha community are independent, center left, libertarian.

[00:12:34] Dr. Will Cole: We’re not ideologue Republicans. We’re not. Um, we, or conservatives, I should say. We’re not super conservative. People, at least socially, right, say most of us are probably socially liberal, um, fiscally maybe responsible and conservative, but I think we’re most of America, that we just want, we want health. We want prosperity.

[00:12:55] Dr. Will Cole: We want freedom. We want diversity of thought and opinion. Uh, these things are essential to human health.

[00:13:02] JJ: So if you were the benevolent dictator of the world, Yeah. and you could change three things about the way we approach health, what would they be?

[00:13:14] Dr. Will Cole: From a policy standpoint? It

[00:13:16] JJ: can be anything. It could be anything.

[00:13:18] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah. Well, I think the grass laws, generally recognized as safe, is problematic when it comes to, there’s thousands of ingredients. I’ve seen some statistics like 10, 000 additives in the American food, um, food supply versus in the EU it’s 400 different additives. So we have a significant amount, thousands and thousands of additives that are generally recognized as safe that are, we are seeing the, that’s why we have such an epidemic rise of autism, autoimmune problems, metabolic and fertility issues.

[00:13:53] Dr. Will Cole: How do those get

[00:13:53] JJ: passed through those grass, uh, you know, something being considered as

[00:13:57] Dr. Will Cole: grass? It’s a, it’s a loophole in, in the law, so hopefully these are things that these Politicians, these doctors that are now in politics and politicians and food lawyers, and I talked to a lot of them last night, food lawyers and food policy experts that are really going to close these loopholes and make our food safer for our families.

[00:14:19] JJ: Yeah. Wow. They need to go revisit every single one of those.

[00:14:23] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah. Yeah. 10, 000. Okay. Let’s go through all of it. Yeah. And make

[00:14:27] JJ: a tighter thing for new ones coming in.

[00:14:29] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah. Exactly. So I would say really reform grass. I would say, I mean, if we’re talking pure policy, I think that we should quit, um, start reform or reforming, uh, the subsidies towards these.

[00:14:43] Dr. Will Cole: monocrops, like the wheat and the, the sort of soy and these genetically modified glyphosate sprayed crops. I think that removing subsidies for these crops would do tremendous good for the American food supply. I think that Looking at the food stamp program, the, they don’t call it now the stamp program.

[00:15:09] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah, whatever it is. So snap. The snap, sorry. The SNAP program is sort of the rebranded version of it, but the food assistance program, I think that taking junk food, processed foods out of that, I mean you are preying on people that, um, there’s no informed consent. To go for these foods that we feed chronic disease for these people and then we pay for their chronic disease management.

[00:15:36] Dr. Will Cole: So those are just some big policy things that if I would, I don’t know if I would say if I was a dictator, but if I was

[00:15:41] JJ: I say, I always say benevolent. Benevolent.

[00:15:44] Dr. Will Cole: If I was a benevolent dictator that I could just wave a magic wand and change American food policy, those are some ways that we would start.

[00:15:52] Dr. Will Cole: But then look, I think that Getting special interests, this is a major one, is getting special interest out of food, uh, research, health research, food research, pharmaceutical research, and really having, you know, like, diversity of thought as far as the research is concerned, having uh, an ability for innovative out of the box ideas to come forward and not subjugate or suppress information when it’s inconvenient.

[00:16:23] Dr. Will Cole: So things like peptides and alternative therapies and psychedelics and nutrient density when it comes to food, um, really can run wild and free and people can have true informed consent because to have true informed consent when it comes to somebody’s health, we need to know the. Real evidence based benefits.

[00:16:42] Dr. Will Cole: What are the relative side effects if you talk about pharmaceuticals, for example? And the choice to make what’s right for you, but we don’t have any of that right now. We have cherry picked data We have propaganda We have suppressed information and then we how are we supposed to make good information as a citizen on our food and drugs and Think choices that we make in our life.

[00:17:05] Dr. Will Cole: So those are some some things big things, but I think important things

[00:17:09] JJ: big things Let’s cross our fingers. So last night I will say when I was not out at the Maha inaugural ball I was suffering a little bit from FOMO but Literally, the person who represents the other side of that and having great boundaries and the whole JOMO, Joy of Missing Out movement is you.

[00:17:29] JJ: Yeah. I talk

[00:17:30] Dr. Will Cole: a lot about it.

[00:17:31] JJ: Yes. So just, I’ve always had big, mad respect for you on that. I, a lot of your Instagram posts do that and I’m like, okay, reminder, JJ, reminder, because It’s, it’s been a little bit of a internal struggle.

[00:17:45] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah. Hey, it’s Joe, Joe Moe comes easy for someone like me because I’m more of an introverted homebody type of guy where I, I have to check myself and push myself out there a little bit because it was very much easy for, like, I was.

[00:18:00] Dr. Will Cole: Telling my wife as I was ready to fly to DC. I really just want to stay home. I don’t really want to go And I pushed myself to go but you’re right Most of the culture is not like me where we’re hyper connected. We’re super involved and we’re struggling with burnout And it’s that hyper connectivity on social media and, um, it’s always go, go, go.

[00:18:24] Dr. Will Cole: And I, yeah, all in our own way, cultivating some joy of missing out. The antithesis, the antidote of FOMO is good for our nervous system, right? It’s supportive of that parasympathetic, which I can tell you clinically and you know this, but like, a lot of people are dealing with dysregulation of their neuro immunoendocrine axis, their nervous system, their immune system, their hormones, their endocrine system.

[00:18:49] Dr. Will Cole: So Jomo is a, I call it a metaphysical meal. Like we’re to look at food as medicine, we look at biohacks and supplementation on like the physiological side, but that psychological side, uh, these mind body meals, if you will, that, um, Bringing some acts of stillness, some healthy boundaries with ourselves is sometimes the best medicine, like saying no, making no your multivitamin is some of the best thing you can do.

[00:19:17] Dr. Will Cole: Um, so I applaud you because you’re busy and you’re between two trips and you’re like, I’m going to make this maha ball work, but you’re like, no, I’m going to, I’m going to rest and sleep because I have a trip coming up. I applaud you. And you know what? Social media always makes things look.

[00:19:32] JJ: That’s why I wasn’t even going to look at it, because I was like, this will just make you more upset.

[00:19:35] JJ: I ordered an extra gown just in case I changed my mind. I

[00:19:38] Dr. Will Cole: love that you came that far. But I did. I was like, Oh,

[00:19:41] JJ: and then, and then, but it’s funny. I was in preparing for this. I saw a statement. You said boundaries are medicine. And I was, Like calm down. And here’s the, here’s the irony, this mastermind retreat that I was putting on with all of these amazing practitioners this past weekend, it was a release ceremony.

[00:20:00] JJ: What do you need to say no to? It was all of that. I’m like, listen.

[00:20:05] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah, that’s good. Yeah. It’s, I mean, social media, it’s a blessing, but it’s a double edged sword and it’s a highlight reel. So you were missed. You were missed. We wish you were there. But, um, no, I’m glad that you had some self care instead.

[00:20:17] JJ: Well, you talked about the nervous system and I think I’ve interviewed you for most of your books. Yeah,

[00:20:22] Dr. Will Cole: thank you did

[00:20:23] JJ: all four.

[00:20:24] Dr. Will Cole: I think that you did. Maybe all

[00:20:25] JJ: four? Wow.

[00:20:25] Dr. Will Cole: So thank you so much for that. Honestly, your years of support, I thought about this as on my drive over here. I’m like, it, it does not go unnoticed.

[00:20:34] Dr. Will Cole: So thank you. Cause as you know, having a book isn’t easy. So when I do have a book coming out, I don’t have a book out right now. I’m just here for fun and to talk, but it’s. Your support meant a lot over the years.

[00:20:45] JJ: It’s fun when you don’t have a book, because then I can like totally dial into my ADHD and go all over the place.

[00:20:51] JJ: Yeah, there’s no agenda. But I would love to go back over to gut feelings, because you just mentioned the nervous system and parasympathetic. And how would someone know? That they are sitting in that place of being, you know, of anxiety, of nervous system dysregulation. What would it look like? And then, you know, what should they do?

[00:21:13] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah. Uh, the sort of cliche, but it’s deeply true, is that feeling wired and tired. anxious and exhausted, so I would check him with your whole body. I think that a lot of times it is that the mental symptoms um, of anxiety, exhaustion, um, trouble falling asleep, trouble staying asleep. It could be digestive problems to the gut brain axis and the vagus nerve is the largest cranial nerve in the body.

[00:21:42] Dr. Will Cole: It’s responsible for that resting, digesting, so both the anxiety, calming, resting, but also your gut health. So a lot of people that have this dysregulation of the nervous system, immune system, the endocrine system, have digestive problems, chronic constipation, bloating, irritable bowel syndrome, IBS, um, so those are some problems.

[00:22:06] Dr. Will Cole: But because when the body’s under that sort of frenetic fight or flight freeze state and the sympathetic tone is overactive, that can manifest in many different ways. There’s a cascade, a ripple effect that can happen. So then it could be, you know, hair thinning, hair loss. Um, the thyroid’s highly sensitive to stress.

[00:22:24] Dr. Will Cole: So can thyroid issues can happen, which can cause a whole host of different problems and weak nails. The outer third of your eyebrows thinning, um, fertility issues can happen here because you’re talking about a cornerstone. System, uh, connection highway of the body that everything, when that’s dysregulated, it’s gonna cause a lot of cascades throughout the body.

[00:22:47] Dr. Will Cole: So that neuro amino endocrine axis is really what I’m talking about. The gut brain brain hormonal axis. So those are some telltale signs that your body’s giving you some proverbial check engine lights. And we’re, our job in functional medicine is to figure out a, well, what is it, and then why is it going on so we can start to bring function back.

[00:23:10] JJ: So someone listening, because so much of what you described is kind of every person everywhere right now. What are some things you could bring into your everyday life to start to shift that, to start to regulate your nervous system, your favorites?

[00:23:24] Dr. Will Cole: Transcribed Well, and that’s why I called that book gut feelings because it was both a both and not either or approach So a gut and a feelings a physical and then a mental emotional spiritual So there’s a protocol in that book that each day there’s a gut and a feelings tool So for on the gut side, it could be bringing in more soups and stews like broths something that is like a Like a proverbial siesta for your gut, where you’re not, you’re not working on digesting lots of raw things like salads or something like that, which have their place, even you could have a salad, it could be a steamed salad or something that is a little bit, when you’re using sort of traditional Chinese medicine, Ayurvedic principles of when the body is stressed out like this, you want to have these hearty, nourishing, grounding Easy to digest things.

[00:24:12] Dr. Will Cole: I think soups and stews and broths. So that’s definitely something that I would predominantly make your food as medicine in those sort of forms and do some brothing and souping. And then on the feeling side, it could be cultivating Jomo into your life. Bring some joy of missing out. And what do you do?

[00:24:29] Dr. Will Cole: It’s not just about not going to that. Inaugural ball. It’s about what are you doing in that time? So maybe some breath work Releasing ceremony. It’s how do you kind of nourish that? Parasympathetic, but some of my favorites are like breathwork meditation. I talk about like the Scandinavian practice of Hygge Which is like getting cozy and you know curling under that weighted blanket Which is also great for the parasympathetic lighting that non toxic candle You know just sipping some you know Green tea or whatever you want to have there some cozy thing because not enough people do that.

[00:25:05] JJ: I love the I got this cozy Weighted blanket from Sunday citizen. That’s got crystals in it. Wow It is the greatest and the dogs love it, too. I want to meet your dogs Yeah, Tim does not love it. The dogs are like, yeah Well next time you come you have to come over for dinner. What’s the name of the brand?

[00:25:27] JJ: It’s called Sunday Citizen. They have a meditation pillow that’s got the crystals in it. They’ve got the weighted It’s funny, I got one for Dr. Joe Dispenza and he always makes fun of all the crystals. So I got him a crystal weighted blanket. He’ll like

[00:25:41] Dr. Will Cole: it. He’ll like it.

[00:25:42] JJ: So, I love that. So, you’ve talked about orthorexia.

[00:25:49] JJ: Let’s kind of get into that a little bit.

[00:25:51] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah. So, there are I mean, for people that don’t know, it’s disordered eating around healthy foods and, um, it’s a complex topic, right? It’s, I’ll say this, there is, it’s human nature, especially in our culture, with social media and tribalism and all of that, to overcorrect.

[00:26:15] Dr. Will Cole: So we have a history as a culture to focus on purely on the outward. On vanity, on thinness, and the conversation, the context can be lost there, where it could be just about that, just the superficial looks, and not about true health, and your outer looks being a ripple effect of that. So, when it’s, when that context is lost, and it’s just sort of the vapid, superficial, um, vanity, It, um, can create a lot of problems and diet culture has hurt a lot of people over the years.

[00:26:50] Dr. Will Cole: It’s messed up a lot of people’s relationship with their bodies. Messed up a lot of people’s relationship with food. So, we as society can overcorrect, um, and really it can look at different ways, right? It can look like the body positivity movement. It could look like the health at every size. There’s no such thing as bad food.

[00:27:14] Dr. Will Cole: And we have this sort of Toxic tribalism, as we do in many different spaces within our world, where it’s this either or, right? It’s like we have our culture today. I think a lot of the conversations you look at body positivity health at every size They will say any food change You’ll say they’ll call it toxic diet culture and that context and nuance is lost, right?

[00:27:40] Dr. Will Cole: And we know the truth is oftentimes somewhere in the middle. Yes Toxic diet cultures messed people up, but it’s also hurting people to say there’s no such thing as a bad food Like a food that doesn’t love your body back It doesn’t make you a bad person, but it doesn’t make you healthy either if you eat it on a daily basis.

[00:28:01] Dr. Will Cole: So orthorexia is in this sort of conversation because health and wellness, the people in our community, it’s the best of intentions, but sometimes the context and nuance is lost there when we’re talking about protein and intermittent fasting. And you have very real things like autoimmune problems and gut health issues because of our environment, and we have 24 7 health information on podcasts and books and all these amazing things.

[00:28:32] Dr. Will Cole: But sometimes the vessel, the person, the consumer, can’t contain the amount of information that they have at their fingertips in this weird world that we live in. And it can create this sort of hyper focused obsession around health. And stressing and having shame and obsession around health isn’t good for your health.

[00:28:55] Dr. Will Cole: And it can become sort of that sort of toxic diet culture, but within health and wellness. So I think there’s that aspect of it. So a lot of my job with telehealth patients is checking that. Is like, yeah, you can’t ignore the fact that, yeah, there’s some things that don’t love the human body back. Yes, there is such things as environmental toxins and things that we need to have conversations about.

[00:29:16] Dr. Will Cole: But, how can we have healthy boundaries with this information? In the most real sense. Like, is it bringing you Is it actually improving your health and edifying you or is it just really stressing an already stressed out person? So sometimes doing less is way more effective if something do if doing less is more sustainable and practical for you So sometimes it’s about simplifying your life But then there’s another aspect of orthorexia that I see within our telehealth patients that have autoimmunity Because there are real And not just autoimmunity, let me say this, digestive problems, food sensitivity issues, I see this among this population a lot because food has created flare ups in them, digestive problems, food sensitivities, autoimmune flares, where their relationship with food and their bodies becomes very fearful and anxiety ridden.

[00:30:11] Dr. Will Cole: They never want to have that flare up again. So I get that. So that’s a little bit different because it’s not just, you know, diet culture within wellness, um, creating this disordered eating around healthy foods or orthorexia. This is like Yeah, I do have flare ups from food. Now I have fear around foods and it’s orthorexia that way because it’s, yes, it’s real symptoms, but the stress and anxiety around the food will also be a contributing factor to these flare ups around food.

[00:30:38] Dr. Will Cole: So we need to heal not just their bodies so they can improve resilience, but heal. Their actual relationship with food again, as their gut improves, as their body’s improved resilience because I will find that that sort of orthorexic mindset around the food will make reintroduction, once the gut is healthier, once the body is healthier, it will make reintroduction nearly impossible because there’s such this sort of Um, negativity and inner resistance around the food.

[00:31:08] Dr. Will Cole: So it’s complex, but it’s something that I, when I post about on social media, it’s because I see it clinically with, with telehealth patients on, on both camps, you know, people that listen to all the podcasts and they’re just becoming obsessive or people that have food issues and that trauma around the food flare ups really creating a problem.

[00:31:26] Dr. Will Cole: They’re eating five foods and they’re afraid of all the other ones.

[00:31:29] JJ: Yeah. I don’t know if you know, I was a cohost of a show called Freaky Eaters. I didn’t know that.

[00:31:36] Dr. Will Cole: Just

[00:31:36] JJ: another, yet another weird one. You have

[00:31:40] Dr. Will Cole: a colorful life, that’s for sure.

[00:31:42] JJ: It was kind of, um, Hoarders Meets My Strange Addiction. It was me and a therapist, a psychotherapist, Dr.

[00:31:52] JJ: Mike Dow. And it was people who were addicted to one food, and that was me. Basically, for a lot of them, that’s the only food they would eat and it was at the expense of their health, their life, everything else. A common one was french fries. Um, we had the cheesy potatoes girl. We had the person who had to put tartar sauce on everything.

[00:32:12] JJ: The person had to put a maple syrup on everything. A couple of them would only eat french fries and literally if they tried to eat anything else, they would get stick sick. They would have that exact. response.

[00:32:23] Dr. Will Cole: That’s interesting because that’s almost, uh. You should have

[00:32:25] JJ: been on that with me. I know.

[00:32:26] Dr. Will Cole: I could have great co host.

[00:32:29] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah, I would have been. But yeah, it’s not pretty when someone’s in that state because look, food sensitivities, digestive problems, autoimmunities, autoimmune conditions are very real. But the, and so the trauma around that food and them never wanting to have that flare up again is very real. But at a certain point, especially when we’re in functional medicine and we’re improving gut health, we’re decreasing the frequency and the intensity of the flare ups, and the goal is to put these things into remission, the body can recover from these physiological flare ups.

[00:33:05] Dr. Will Cole: But the mind is still in the past and on this sort of loop, ruminating loop, where it’s keeping their body stuck. So we have to deal with the feeling side of that gut feelings, crosstalk, because it’ll, so things like breathwork meditation, EMDR, DNRS, I mean, there’s different things that we can do, um, to start to metabolize that stored trauma, to let the body know it’s safe now.

[00:33:30] Dr. Will Cole: And we can reintroduce those foods that maybe flared you up in the past, but we can explore appropriately. We’re not talking about every, you know, thing under the sun, but whatever makes sense on that person’s health history, what is possible for their body. And I don’t want them, nor should they want for themselves, and they don’t.

[00:33:47] Dr. Will Cole: Most people don’t. They want to have variety and flexibility and not this sort of constant hyper focus. So let’s get them there, but then we need to allow the nervous system to know, yeah, you are there now. We can work on reintroduction.

[00:34:00] JJ: You have been doing telehealth. We were talking about this. I think you’re like, you’re definitely one of the early adopters, if not one of the first pioneers in telehealth.

[00:34:08] JJ: How long have you been doing it? 16

[00:34:10] Dr. Will Cole: plus years. Uh, that’s what I mean. When I was at the Maha ball. I’m normally in this one room, talking to people online, uh, so it was, yeah, I don’t get out much. I don’t get out much. So, yeah, it’s been a long time. But

[00:34:26] JJ: when you go out, get out, you go big. Yeah, right. It’s like, I’m either in my little room.

[00:34:31] JJ: Or I’m at a big ball. Yeah,

[00:34:33] Dr. Will Cole: yeah, exactly.

[00:34:33] JJ: Nowhere in between. What have you seen over the last 10 years? Have you seen like an increase? Are you getting more people coming in with, say, autoimmune disease? What’s, what have you been seeing shift in health?

[00:34:45] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah, I think a few things. One is over 16 years, the, and I’m sure you’ve seen this too, is that our community has expanded a lot.

[00:34:58] Dr. Will Cole: And there’s more awareness, I think, on health information and I honestly, to be honest with you, I think it’s one of the reasons why the whole Maha thing has happened the way that it did because there is this growing informed populace that’s voting with their dollars when it comes to the foods and the products that they want.

[00:35:21] Dr. Will Cole: You think of I mean, you’ve been, I think I’ve seen you there, but Expo West every year at the Anaheim Convention Center. I remember

[00:35:28] JJ: Expo West 20 years ago.

[00:35:31] Dr. Will Cole: It’s massive now. And these sort of massive conglomerates, like, uh, you know, By the way, Expo

[00:35:39] JJ: West is like now to me, fake health food.

[00:35:43] Dr. Will Cole: Well, yeah. Well, there’s a lot of greenwashing.

[00:35:46] JJ: Yeah.

[00:35:47] Dr. Will Cole: But there’s a lot of good brands too, right? Yeah, you just have to find it, but it’s not, you know,

[00:35:51] JJ: it’s just like going to Whole Foods.

[00:35:53] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah. So it’s a large natural health food expo in the world. And the point saying this is that that is as big as it is, the health and wellness industry is as big as it is, is because people have voted with their dollars.

[00:36:07] Dr. Will Cole: So, but, and people also voted in the election because a large part, I think if you look at the. Percentage of people that are voting for health in this country is because people are waking up that what we’re doing is unsustainable So I see that there’s a larger diverse coalition of people that Maybe have a lot of differences in other areas, but this health area is one way that we can come together So I think that, I see that also clinically is that people of all different backgrounds are really wanting agency on their health and the old age of, because a guy said it in a white coat, take this pill, see you in six months.

[00:36:48] Dr. Will Cole: isn’t going to fly anymore, that people really want to be educated. They want to have informed consent when it comes to all health choices in their life and food choices. Um, so I think that’s a big shift over the past 16 years, but specifically types of cases, I would say something since 2020. is a specific type of autoimmune condition called POTS, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome.

[00:37:16] Dr. Will Cole: So this is sort of a dysregulation of that neuro immunoendocrine axis that I talked about. So some signs, common symptoms of POTS are things like vertigo, dizziness, heart palpitations, anxiety, brain fog, fatigue. Um, Now, just because you have those symptoms doesn’t mean it’s for sure POTS, but there has to be tests and health history and context to determine what it is.

[00:37:39] Dr. Will Cole: But there’s research now that show, like, a lot of these long haul or long COVID, uh, symptom, uh, people that don’t recover from COVID. Uh, it, the COVID virus triggers POTS in a certain percentage of people and other inflammatory problems. So that’s something that I would say over the past five years I’ve seen more of.

[00:37:58] Dr. Will Cole: Now, you and I both know that other viruses can trigger autoimmune problems. It’s no news to us. Like, we’ve been looking at this for a long time. Sixteen years of things like Epstein Barr virus triggering chronic fatigue syndrome. Nothing new. So the mechanism of action actually wasn’t surprising when it started happening in 2020, but obviously at the time it was a novel virus.

[00:38:17] Dr. Will Cole: So it was, how is this going to treat, how is this going to impact people longterm? Well, we’re seeing that there’s a certain percentage of people that it does trigger some sort of inflammatory problem impacting their nervous system, their heart and their brain. So, um, we have great success in addressing these issues and Calming down that inflammatory, um, response and both the virus and the vaccine, not to get a little controversial, both can Okay,

[00:38:47] JJ: we’re coming out of the closet of being controversial at this point.

[00:38:50] JJ: All right, good.

[00:38:51] Dr. Will Cole: So both the virus and the vaccine can trigger it. So people, and you talk about, we talk about this on social media, the comment section goes You know, a blaze because people that didn’t get the vaccine, they just had COVID and that triggered the autoimmune issue. And then people that didn’t get COVID, but the vaccine triggered this.

[00:39:12] Dr. Will Cole: It’s a both and, not either or. So, um, I have no doubt that there will be studies that show the vaccine exponentially is more likely to trigger it, uh, over the virus. Time will tell on more studies when it comes to that. But I think the early data, anecdotally, I will say that I would agree to that as well.

[00:39:33] Dr. Will Cole: But it doesn’t really matter, um, because they both have inherent risk. Getting a virus has inherent risk. Getting a vaccine is inherent risk. The problem that I had from 2020 and those early days of COVID 2021, really 2022 is the mandates. Cause that was the real problem is like, okay, they didn’t have a choice.

[00:39:55] Dr. Will Cole: If you’re going to lose your job or you can’t go into a building because you don’t have a card and you have an autoimmune condition and you’re just afraid and you want to do the right thing and then that triggered POTS, that’s the problem. Um, but you can’t control if you get a virus or not, you didn’t choose that.

[00:40:14] Dr. Will Cole: But you have to, like, you are being forced to have something that could cause problems. So I think that was criminal. The mandates are criminal. But those are some things that I’ve seen over the past five years, is this rate of autoimmunity. Now, it’s not just one thing, right? It’s environmental toxins, it’s For our gut health, it’s trauma, it’s a confluence of different factors that are at play.

[00:40:37] Dr. Will Cole: So it’s never just one thing. Um, but we have, what do we have choice on and what don’t we have choice on? And let’s start emptying the bucket as much as we can.

[00:40:46] JJ: Yeah, and as far as like environmental toxins, I was listening to a podcast you were on. I think it was with the Skinny Confidential. Yeah. With Michael and Lauren.

[00:40:55] JJ: And you were talking about something that I was like, oh. I didn’t think it was that way, where I was figuring, especially being here in Florida, that the old houses would be the moley houses and that the new houses would not be. And you actually said the opposite. And I was like, Oh no, yes you did. Yes. Oh, I, I know.

[00:41:12] Dr. Will Cole: I’m glad I said that because I don’t remember saying that. in front of the world, but I, I, that’s what I see clinically, um, because I, a lot of our patients have new homes, right, especially in Florida, where there’s a lot of new builds, a lot of new developments here, and they think, well, my home was just built, that’s, that’s not an issue, but it’s in their HVAC system, it’s in their air conditioning system, or it’s behind the walls, and it was, When they built the house, um, and it never fully dried out.

[00:41:41] Dr. Will Cole: And these are microscopic mycotoxins that can usually be circulated around the house. Um, yeah. So it’s not just the old. Um, if anything, I’ve had people in the construction and the remediation space tell me that a lot of the older homes, this is generalizing, but a lot of the older homes are built, they were built better where the home could breathe.

[00:42:08] Dr. Will Cole: And actually could limit the amount of mold because there was more oxygen going through versus these new homes that sort of maybe craftsmanship or design or techniques are different where there’s, the home is not breathing and it can fester a lot of these mold toxins. And other environmental toxins.

[00:42:28] JJ: Yikes. So, looking at metabolic health, again, because you do a lot of labs at your clinic, if someone wanted to go, just look at the most important markers for metabolic health. Which would they be and which numbers are the ideal ranges that you love?

[00:42:44] Dr. Will Cole: So, you and I were talking about this before, but they’re A lot of this is pre pandemic data, but I think it’s a UNC report study that’s, that’s cited around only 93 percent of participants.

[00:42:58] Dr. Will Cole: Let me say it this other, other way. Only 7 percent of participants hit the criteria for optimal metabolic health. 93 percent of the, the sort of, 93 percent of people don’t have good metabolic health. And I think when you look at the conventional you know, standards, they’re, they’re a little bit loose.

[00:43:20] Dr. Will Cole: They’re looking at statistical bell curve averages of just, just general population. So they’re not even the functional ranges, the optimal, they’re just average ranges. So I would have even tighter, more optimal ranges. Maybe you’d have

[00:43:32] JJ: like 3%. Yeah,

[00:43:32] Dr. Will Cole: we probably 3 percent of people would check all the boxes for optimal metabolic health.

[00:43:37] Dr. Will Cole: So this is where I want the numbers to be. Uh, glucose, your fasting blood sugar going to be under 90. HDL or good cholesterol to be above 59. Try glycerides. Men and

[00:43:49] JJ: women, doesn’t matter?

[00:43:51] Dr. Will Cole: Doesn’t matter. Why do they

[00:43:52] JJ: always have the men and women different on that?

[00:43:54] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah, I don’t know. I, I, I want it to be the 60s and 70s for both men and women.

[00:43:59] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah, so you, I’m sure there probably, there could be different reasons between men and women, but as long as we’re above 59, I see great outcomes and people feel great. Yeah, so I don’t have to have it significantly different. So, HDL above 59, triglycerides under 100, um, the A1C to be under 5. 6, you could say 5.

[00:44:23] Dr. Will Cole: 7. That’s your three month average of your blood sugar. Where would you really love that to be? 5. 4. Be beautiful. That’d be beautiful. Um, I mean, you could run, you could, we do this, but when it’s needed wearing like a continuous glucose monitor for a month and looking at their glucose spikes and dips throughout the month and seeing how food stress and sleep impact their blood sugar, but having optimal blood balance throughout the blood sugar balance throughout the month and inflammation markers, high sensitivity to reactive protein to be under one, homocysteine to be under seven, um, Um, we would run what’s called a Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Test, NMR test.

[00:45:04] Dr. Will Cole: We’d want small, dense LDL particles, which are specific, they’re the particles that carry, um, LDL around. They’re the oxidized, sort of inflamed particles that carry cholesterol around. We want this to be under 950. We want it to be in pattern A, which is the fluffy, buoyant, large, buoyant LDL particles. And, um, yeah, so those are When you look at that, um, the NMR test, the, the cardio metabolic, testing and the comprehensive metabolic test.

[00:45:37] Dr. Will Cole: LabCorp will also assess insulin resistance score. So if I can get that test with LabCorp, um, if they’re not going through Quest, I could look at their IR score as well. I want that to be as low as possible. So when you’re looking at just metabolic health, those are what I would pick. Um, there’d be a few other ones.

[00:45:56] Dr. Will Cole: APOB would be one. LP little A would be another one. Um, and these are all conventional tests. Like, none of these are alike. Right. Functional medicine, fringe tests. They’re just not typically all ran. Some of them are ran, obviously. But not all together. Um, and if they could be super picky, like looking at magnesium, vitamin D, would be super helpful for metabolic health.

[00:46:20] Dr. Will Cole: It still blows my

[00:46:20] JJ: mind that we do not regularly do vitamin D. Yeah, and it’s difficult for

[00:46:24] Dr. Will Cole: coverage for some people with their insurance. Yeah, it shouldn’t stop them. I mean, we’ll find a way to get it for them. Because this should be paramount that everybody’s running a magnesium, RBC, and a vitamin D.

[00:46:36] JJ: And the critical thing here is those numbers you just said, like if you look at the labs, the ranges are not that.

[00:46:42] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah.

[00:46:42] JJ: And so that’s the biggest challenge with this whole metabolic health thing, is the ranges are too high. And so if you get to this, because it’s a process over time, like you don’t wake up with poor metabolic health. Yeah. Right. It’s a process.

[00:46:54] Dr. Will Cole: Well, look back. Yeah. By the time somebody is diagnosed, it’s about four to 10 years prior to that diagnosis that things are brewing on that sort of dysregulation continuum.

[00:47:04] JJ: Now, if I was benevolent dictator.

[00:47:06] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah. What would you do? I’m going to know.

[00:47:08] JJ: I would add in a grip strength test and a VO two max test.

[00:47:13] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah.

[00:47:14] JJ: And a balance test. Like I would look like, like, you know, if a VO2 exercise fixes, a lot of stuff, they used to always say, you can’t out exercise a bad diet. I go, well, it can actually make a big dent.

[00:47:26] Dr. Will Cole: Well, yeah. And food is not going to be directly correlated to grip strength. I mean, there’s going to be some things that exercise is going to move the needle for longevity and health span.

[00:47:35] JJ: So, I mean, it would be fabulous if you went to your healthcare provider, they did a DEXA scan, they did a grip strength.

[00:47:43] JJ: They did like a jump test. They did a VO2 max. Then they did all of those ones as well. Then you’d really have some direction to go.

[00:47:50] Dr. Will Cole: Should be standard. I mean, hey. You should be part of these, um, the incoming initiatives. I

[00:47:56] JJ: should have gone to that ball. Well, let’s talk. Let’s, before we wrap up, since it is well beyond 40, I do want to jump into the aging conversation a bit.

[00:48:06] JJ: And what I would love to do is I want to, I want to connect the dots between inflammation and aging, but I also want to connect the dots in this whole controversy out there of low protein versus. Optimal protein with aging because there’s still a whole camp out there that thinks that you should not eat much protein That it will age you.

[00:48:25] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah. Well, I mean that’s Centered around a lot of mTOR, right? It’s mTOR and the research around mTOR and longevity. Yeah,

so

[00:48:38] Dr. Will Cole: I just think we lose the context of real life. We become so hyper focused on the pathway and don’t look at the larger context of it. So I think it’s oftentimes a both and approach even there.

[00:48:49] Dr. Will Cole: There’s a time. When we want mTOR to be low, right? I think that there’s cyclical times of fasting to upregulate these deep mitochondrial mitophagy pathways and decrease mTOR to allow stem cells to be activated and AMPK to be upregulated and all these amazing pro antioxidant, pro healthspan pathways.

[00:49:17] Dr. Will Cole: Human nature to say, well, if it’s cyclical times is good to clean house, right? Time for cellular renewal, let’s, let’s always be in that state. And we’re going to have diminishing returns of that. And then you have these people that just look completely translucent and pale and feeble. It’s like they don’t look like a picture of health at all.

[00:49:40] Dr. Will Cole: And they’ve kind of lost sight on it because they sort of worship the pathway versus looking at the larger context of how to be a vibrant human. And, um, yeah. So I think that we have to be mindful of protein optimization. But, yes, have times of fasting as well. So I think that’s the art part of Science.

[00:50:02] Dr. Will Cole: Oh, science isn’t art, right? But we become, you know, more is better, and it’s just one thing. But I think diversity is the spice of life, if you will, when it comes to so many different things, but specifically health. That I think finding times of seasonal, pulsed fasting could be hugely beneficial. To clean, to clean out dead dysfunctional cells and do protein sparing protocols and limit protein for a time.

[00:50:28] Dr. Will Cole: But long term I think the, the, the data is clear. One of the best things you can do for Longevity is maintaining lean muscle mass and making sure we have adequate protein is a significant part of that, not the only part of that, but it’s a significant part of it. Um, so yeah, I think that, I don’t know. I, I, I, what are people saying?

[00:50:51] Dr. Will Cole: What are people saying? Because I, I know that when you look at the Vulture Longo’s research and the fasting mimicking approach and especially a lot of vegans out there, they don’t really, uh, like. They have a, they, they think we go overboard on protein. Well,

[00:51:06] JJ: I think it’s the, uh, oh yeah, there’s, there’s definitely two schools of thought.

[00:51:09] JJ: And I think it follows the whole orthorexia thing. It’s like, it’s like hardcore that way, hardcore this way. And it’s like, what if both are right? Yeah. Both are right. Yeah. You know, I think it was a Sashim Panda that said we were actually eating now like 15 hours a day. Like we just literally wake up and eat until we pass out.

[00:51:30] JJ: So that’s not the right way to go. But it’s also if you go on this OMAD. One meal a day for an extended period of time. That’s not the right. So it’s really what how do you how do you use all of this? It to me it looks like Western medicine and say combining Chinese medicine Ayurvedic. They all have great things in them You don’t if I threw out Western medicine, I would not have what my son would be dead So, how do you take the best of all these things and use the right tool for what you’re doing?

[00:52:01] JJ: And so yes, sometimes we want mTOR low And sometimes we want it high and it’s not, it’s not either or it’s all of this. But if for some reason, I remember back when I was in exercise science, the resistance trainers had to fight with the yoga people. I’m like, what if we need both of these? So I was like, let’s all get along.

[00:52:19] JJ: I need all of it. We need to run and lift weights and do some yoga.

[00:52:24] Dr. Will Cole: I mean, look at the people that I, this is a generality, but the people that. are the most vibrant, the most healthy, and I would say also be great if we could have their labs too, but because of the brilliance of social media, many people will share their labs of what they’re doing.

[00:52:39] Dr. Will Cole: Um, I think that it’s easy to be get on a soapbox and say, well, this is the way and there’s everybody should do this. But when everybody, when somebody is so myopic that they kind of lose sight of real life, I think that we create the overcorrection, like we were talking about earlier. You’re absolutely right.

[00:53:00] Dr. Will Cole: It’s sort of hyper focused overcorrection and it becomes sort of a cult of of this idea versus the sort of art of life.

[00:53:07] JJ: Okay. So you said showing labs on social media. So Brian Johnson,

[00:53:16] JJ: I I’m fascinated by Brian Johnson. Um, right. And I just like, thank you, Brian, for sharing everything you’re doing. And the way you live your life does not seem fun whatsoever to me, but for those of you who don’t know who he is, he is the guy who wants, who’s running the don’t die movement. And if you heard his daily lifestyle,

[00:53:36] Dr. Will Cole: I’ve seen, I don’t know if it’s changed over the years, but yes, I’ve seen him talk about it.

[00:53:41] Dr. Will Cole: It’s very complex, tons of supplements, right? Um, plant

[00:53:46] JJ: based, completely plant based,

[00:53:48] Dr. Will Cole: plant based. So I know he was kind of in that camp with protein.

[00:53:52] JJ: Like, goes to bed, I think, at like 8 every night, gets up at 5 or 4, eats within a very small window, goes stops eating at 2.

[00:54:00] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah.

[00:54:01] JJ: Like

[00:54:01] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah. But he gets a lot of attention, right?

[00:54:03] Dr. Will Cole: He gets a lot of attention. It’s very, uh, people are curious about it because it is so unrealistic. Um, I, you know, I think that, I don’t know him, I, I, we’ve talked a little bit, I want to have him on my podcast, I want to, I want to talk to him about this, but I could, look, people do these things with good intentions, and I know he wants to help people, right?

[00:54:23] Dr. Will Cole: He’s coming I just wonder,

[00:54:23] JJ: does he want to break out every once in a while and like

[00:54:26] Dr. Will Cole: Maybe he does, that’d be one of the questions I would ask. Dance on the

[00:54:28] JJ: beach at midnight?

[00:54:29] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah, but I was, last night when I was at the ball, uh, Paul Saladino was behind me, and we were actually talking about him, because apparently They were going at it on X.

[00:54:41] JJ: Oh boy. And what is it with X and the guys fighting? The diet wars and stuff on X.

[00:54:47] Dr. Will Cole: Well, see, that’s what I mean. When you asked me the question, I’m like, I don’t even know all the things that are at play here because I’m not really paying attention to it. I’m just seeing patients. I’m just in

[00:54:56] JJ: my little box.

[00:54:57] JJ: I am really in a bubble,

[00:54:58] Dr. Will Cole: man. Um, but someone else brought it up. And I was like, Paul, what did you say to him? Like, what did you say? And he was going to get It’s funny that you asked that question because that’s what it was centered around was protein. And these sort of high protein and no protein wars on, on X, but it’s like, yeah, well, first it’s like all the debating on social media isn’t good for our health either.

[00:55:20] Dr. Will Cole: So how about we just laid off.

[00:55:23] JJ: It’s like Paul, Dave, they love to, they love to drop one in there, like oatmeal with the Peasant food and then Paul Saldino with the broccoli and you’re like, oh, here we go. Here we

[00:55:34] Dr. Will Cole: go There’s smart guys that are just like it’s a pissing contest, but it’s it’s not for me.

[00:55:39] JJ: All right Well, so you said something on a podcast something or someone I think it was introducing you saying he was biohacking in his teens

[00:55:46] Dr. Will Cole: Yeah, and well, yeah.

[00:55:50] Dr. Will Cole: Well the story behind that was I didn’t call it bi hacking, my first job was at the finish line at the mall, I was like 16 years old. Mine was at Swenson’s Ice Cream Parlor. Oh, okay.

[00:56:02] JJ: Same but different. Yeah, same, totally, because

[00:56:04] Dr. Will Cole: mine was probably filled with Forever Chemicals and PFAS, all those tenants, breathing in those fumes.

[00:56:10] Dr. Will Cole: But the, I’d use my paycheck to go to the health food store and buy raw milk and the latest herbs and botanicals. And I really just loved human optimization and studying the science that was available at the time. Um, so. Yeah, I was tinkering with my health at a young age.

[00:56:31] JJ: Yeah, isn’t that funny? So, this tinkering, like, you know, that, that was me saving my allowance to go to the health food store.

[00:56:37] JJ: It’s considered biohacking. I’m like, isn’t, isn’t, I, I like the health optimization thing.

[00:56:42] Dr. Will Cole: No, no, yeah, I don’t, I don’t call myself, I don’t even think of myself like a biohacking. I was, if I said that on a podcast, it was just me trying to give I think they were introducing you that way. Oh, yeah, that’s what they said.

[00:56:54] Dr. Will Cole: That’s

[00:56:54] JJ: interesting, because I don’t see you as a shortcut guy.

[00:56:56] Dr. Will Cole: No, I’m not. No, no, no. No, human optimization, feeling good, which a lot of the biohackers want to, right? It’s like the, well,

[00:57:03] JJ: that’s

[00:57:03] Dr. Will Cole: ultimately

[00:57:04] JJ: their goal.

[00:57:04] Dr. Will Cole: Exactly.

[00:57:05] JJ: Um, I’m just like, when I hear it, I’m like, no, don’t try to shortcut your exercise. No.

[00:57:09] JJ: Yeah. Even when

[00:57:10] Dr. Will Cole: I say that word, I’m not even thinking of a shortcut, but you’re right. That’s how Dave uses it historically. Right. Um, no, I just mean like tools to optimize.

[00:57:19] JJ: Yes. That makes sense with what I know about you. So for people listening who would love to follow you, maybe come to your telehealth clinic, et cetera.

[00:57:28] JJ: We’ll put this all at JJ virgin. com port slash will Cole, but where, where all can they find

[00:57:34] Dr. Will Cole: you? Uh, drwillcole. com at drwillcole on all the handles. So where are you? Where’s

[00:57:41] JJ: your one that you’re most active?

[00:57:42] Dr. Will Cole: Instagram.

[00:57:43] JJ: That’s what I

[00:57:43] Dr. Will Cole: thought. Yeah. Instagram is where I’m at. Um, but we do stuff on X, we do Tik TOK.

[00:57:50] Dr. Will Cole: When it’s available, um, and, uh, but mainly Instagram and my podcast is called the art of being well. So yeah, those are all the places.

[00:57:59] JJ: Awesome. So JJ virgin. com forward slash will Cole and I’m excited to have you over for dinner. Yes. With the doggies. So you just let me know when you’re going to be around.

[00:58:08] JJ: Yes.

[00:58:08] Dr. Will Cole: I’ll be back. Let’s

[00:58:09] JJ: hook it up.

[00:58:10] Dr. Will Cole: I’d love that.

[00:58:10] JJ: All right. Thanks for having me. Thank you.

[00:58:17] JJ: Be sure to join me next time for more tools, tips, and techniques you can incorporate into everyday life to ensure you look and feel great and are built to last. Check me out on Instagram, Facebook, and my website, JJVirgin. com, and make sure to follow my podcast at SubscribeToJJ. com so you don’t miss a single episode.

[00:58:40] JJ: And hey, if you’re loving what you hear, don’t forget to leave a review. Your reviews make a big difference in helping me reach more incredible women just like you to spread the word about aging powerfully after 40. Thanks for tuning in. And I’ll catch you on the next episode. Want to listen to this show ad free?

[00:59:00] JJ: Head over to subscribe to JJ. com and start your ad free experience today.

[00:59:14] JJ: Hey, JJ here. And just a reminder that the Well Beyond 40 podcast offers health, wellness, fitness, and nutritional information. That’s designed for educational and entertainment purposes only. You should not rely on this information as a substitute for, nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

[00:59:31] JJ: If you have any concerns or questions about your health, you should always consult with a physician or other healthcare professional. Make sure that you do not disregard, avoid, or delay obtaining medical or health related advice from your health care professional because of something you may have heard on the show or read in our show notes.

[00:59:47] JJ: The use of any information provided on the show is solely at your own risk.

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