[00:00:00] JJ Virgin: I am JJ Virgin, PhD Dropout, sorry, mom turned four time New York Times bestselling author. I’m a certified nutrition specialist, fitness Hall of Famer, and I speak at health conferences and trainings around the globe, but I’m driven most of all. By my insatiable curiosity and love of science to keep asking questions, digging for answers, and sharing the information that I uncover with as many people as I can, and that’s where you come in.

[00:00:35] JJ Virgin: That’s why I created the Well Beyond 40 podcasts to synthesize and simplify the science of health into actionable strategies to help you thrive. In each episode we’ll talk about what’s working in the world of wellness, from personalized nutrition and healing your metabolism to powerful aging and prescriptive fitness.

[00:00:57] JJ Virgin: Join me on the journey to better health so you can love how you look and feel right now and have the energy to play full out. 100. Don’t miss an episode. Subscribe [email protected] to start unlocking your healthiest, most energetic self. Hey, JJ here today we are going to go into gut health, dig into it a little bit, dive deep into it, and we haven’t done that in, gosh, quite a long time.

[00:01:29] JJ Virgin: So. I thought, you know, it’s time to start talking about small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, leaky gut parasites, and I have a great guest with me today. It’s Hannah Ale Word, and she’s a functional gut, gut health practitioner, and got into the business, which I would assume so many people who get into the gut health.

[00:01:49] JJ Virgin: Space, get into the gut health space because they got gut problems and she was similar to that, dug in deep and now has an entire business with lots of gut practitioners working with her to help people figure out the root cause of the root cause. So quite often we talk in functional medicine about finding the root cause for something, but quite often in gut health space.

[00:02:11] JJ Virgin: We still kind of skim the surface, so we’re gonna talk about what kind of lab testing you can do to really figure out what’s going on. How awesome a stool test is. I just did a stool test with Vibrant Wellness and uh, vibrant labs rather. And it was fantastic. And, uh. Some of the things that you can do to heal your gut, things to look out for.

[00:02:34] JJ Virgin: She also has a great quiz that I will be sharing at jj virgin.com/hannah, H-A-N-N-A-H that will help you kind of identify what could potentially be the problem. So I will be right back with Hannah and to go into gut health and, uh, explore a lot of different issues. Everything from microbiome diversity to oxalates and histamine intolerant.

[00:03:00] JJ Virgin: So stay with me.

[00:03:12] JJ Virgin: Hannah. Welcome to the show.

[00:03:13] Hannah Aylward: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to dive in.

[00:03:16] JJ Virgin: Me too. You know, it’s interesting because I kind of spent years just talking about gut and then I just stopped talking about gut. So I’m excited to bring it back to well beyond 40 ’cause we haven’t really dug into gut issues for a while.

[00:03:32] JJ Virgin: Um, first I’d love to just know. How you got interested in them?

[00:03:37] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I think a lot of us get into this work ’cause we like had our own issues and I, I am in that category as well. So I was someone who was really like struggling with chronic bloating, looking like six months pregnant after eating an apple or like a salad.

[00:03:54] Hannah Aylward: Um, I was eating very healthy. I was eating a very clean diet. And I was exercising, like I’ve been into health for like, as long as I can remember. Um, but I was still really struggling. And then I was dealing with constipation and lots of different food reactions and things just weren’t really like making sense.

[00:04:10] Hannah Aylward: I was young, I was active, I was healthy, and things were not really lining up. Um, and I did all of the elimination diets and I did all of the things and it would make me like. It would help me get a little bit better and then I would kind of fall back again. Um, and so finally I just kind of started digging into the gut environment and the gut microbiome and digestion as a whole, really realizing that there’s so much more to the topic and conversation other than just the food that we’re eating, so,

[00:04:37] JJ Virgin: right.

[00:04:37] Hannah Aylward: Yeah.

[00:04:38] JJ Virgin: It’s kind of endless, honestly. And the, I think the part that people miss with, uh, elimination diets is. The other side of the elimination diet is actually healing. Yes. Healing the gut. It’s like you gotta do both of those things. When I was. In college, I still remember because I was teaching aerobics, dating myself in the eighties, and I remember I was, I was walking back from teaching aerobics in a workout outfit and some woman stopped me.

[00:05:04] JJ Virgin: I was cutting through a department store and it stopped me and asked me how many months pregnant I was. So, oh goodness. I understand that feeling. I was like, whoa.

[00:05:13] Hannah Aylward: Oh my gosh. Yeah. A lot of our clients say that, you know, it’s like sometimes they wake up bloated, or by the time they go, like the day progresses, they have to unbutton their pants at the end of the day.

[00:05:23] Hannah Aylward: And I know it, and you know, the bloating is uncomfortable, but it’s like everything that comes along with that, like canceling dinner plans and being afraid to travel and as someone asking you how many months pregnant you are, you know? Yeah. That really starts to leave. Its mark.

[00:05:37] JJ Virgin: Well, I, I’m kind of trying to think, ’cause you know, we do get into things ’cause of our own stories, but it’s like, it feels like gut problems are so prevalent.

[00:05:46] JJ Virgin: Right. Uh, and more so now than ever. So what do you think’s going on?

[00:05:51] Hannah Aylward: Oh gosh. I feel like I could. Talk about this for three hours, just this. Mm-hmm. Um, I think so many things. I think, of course our diet plays a role, you know, and we’ll see some patterns. What’s interesting is we run a lot of functional stool testing with our clients and we’ll see patterns in people, and one of them is a decrease in bacterial diversity, and that can kind of reflect like the.

[00:06:13] Hannah Aylward: Restrictive diets or, or really maybe not restrictive, maybe that’s not the right word, but more so the diets of like the same five foods, right? Like we used to have all of this diversity in the diet naturally, and we have much less of that now. Um, I also think chronic stress, I mean if we’re, if there’s one thing to kind of get a handle on, it’s that, and stress, I think, can be put in a lot of different buckets.

[00:06:36] Hannah Aylward: Like, I like to, I like to kind of section them out so people can better understand. So we’ve got like physical stressors. Over training, under fueling right blood sugar dysregulation, nutrient deficiencies, and then we’ve got mental and emotional stressors being on your phone all the time. You know, in between like running from meeting to meeting, kind of just the chronic stress that we’re all dealing with the, the hyperconnectivity that we experience today too, like we’re always on and.

[00:07:00] Hannah Aylward: I can check my email in my bed at 11:00 PM like this kind of stuff. I hope you’re not, I know. I am like very much in process here. And then the environmental stressors, so things like mold exposure and heavy metals and chemicals and things in our water, in our air. So I think like stress overall is contributing to some of these chronic, chronic digestive issues.

[00:07:21] Hannah Aylward: And then you’ve got like antibiotic use and medication use and birth control use and all of that.

[00:07:26] JJ Virgin: Yeah. Just to frost the cake.

[00:07:28] Hannah Aylward: Yes.

[00:07:29] JJ Virgin: And it does seem, I don’t know if we are just getting better at identifying mold. Mm-hmm. ’cause it just feels like it’s such a big problem. Obviously a lot of these other toxins are kind of new in the last couple decades, but mold, um, it just feels like it’s.

[00:07:45] JJ Virgin: Everywhere.

[00:07:46] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, totally. It was part of my story and I had no idea. I mean, I knew all about healthy eating and I knew all of that kind of stuff and I was living in mold and I didn’t know, and that was part of what was kind of playing a role in, in my story. And I felt like I had this like layer of like infl inflammatory weight I couldn’t lose, and my face was like.

[00:08:05] Hannah Aylward: It almost looked like I was taking a steroid. Like if you look at my face now versus then, my eyes were sunken in my face was kind of all puffy and my digestion, I mean, I was having like crazy reactions even to all of these healthy foods. So I agree. I like, I mean I could really get up on my soapbox here about about mold, but I do think it’s a huge underlying root cause to like a lot of chronic symptoms that we can’t really get a grasp on.

[00:08:30] JJ Virgin: Yeah. One of the first things I was taught about looking at food sensitivity testing. Was when you had this hyperreactivity, it wasn’t a, it wasn’t the foods. Yes, it was, why are you reacting so much? What are the underlying toxins? Mm-hmm. Um, but I will tell you like when I started down all this path, like 25 years ago, there was very little being taught about mold.

[00:08:51] JJ Virgin: Mm-hmm. Um, I remember being in one mycotoxin lecture and everyone was like, oh my gosh. Um, and. I just, now, I live in Florida. I, I used to think I was safe living in Palm Springs, and I found out, no, you’re not. Mm-hmm. Um, but it’s like, where, where would you possibly be with that? You could be free from mold.

[00:09:10] JJ Virgin: I can’t think of a place.

[00:09:12] Hannah Aylward: I know it’s really hard. I’m from Florida and so there’s a lot of mold in Florida. I’m like born, born and raised there. That cannot

[00:09:18] JJ Virgin: be, you know, yeah.

[00:09:20] Hannah Aylward: The humidity there and then like the hurricane damage. I mean, my goodness. So I don’t think, I don’t think you can escape at all.

[00:09:28] Hannah Aylward: Right. I think it’s more so like supporting your body’s detox systems and maintaining like strength and health and minimizing stress as your baseline. And then just making sure we’re not getting too much exposure, you know, through like leaks, like water damaged buildings. Always check your hvac, especially in a place like Florida where there’s just like, you know, the condensation is building on the hvac.

[00:09:49] Hannah Aylward: I, I was living in a place with a. Brand new hvac. They were like, it couldn’t possibly be the hvac, we just replaced it. Mm-hmm. And then I opened up the closet and it was, it was growing all.

[00:09:58] JJ Virgin: Oh no, I know. But it was, it’s

[00:09:59] Hannah Aylward: because it was so hot. Like Florida gets so hot and then it’s. The, the AC system’s like pumping out, like on overload.

[00:10:07] Hannah Aylward: Um, and then it just grew on top of the hvac and then at that point it’s being pushed through your whole house, you know, so it’s, I try to find the line of like empowering people and educating them, but not like just having people be afraid of every single thing. ’cause it’s, it’s easy to be.

[00:10:21] JJ Virgin: Yeah. Well, as far as the molding, I, I’m trying to remember the name of this I, this kit that we did, ’cause it was a different type of mold.

[00:10:31] JJ Virgin: Like I’ve done a bunch of mold tests in the house. Mm-hmm. I’ll find it for the show notes. But it was a pretty interesting dust kit mm-hmm. That we did all throughout the house to, to look so far safe in Florida, which is amazing. That’s great. But you know, I think it may have been the er

[00:10:45] Hannah Aylward: I-E-R-M-I. Was that the one?

[00:10:47] JJ Virgin: No, that was not it.

[00:10:48] Hannah Aylward: Okay.

[00:10:49] JJ Virgin: I’ll have to, I’ll find it at, uh hmm. Pretty sure it was called The Dust. It might have been called the dust test. Yeah. Something unique like that. Anyhow, all right, so, so someone comes in, like, I’d love to just kind of walk through how someone would look at this. Someone’s got and, and here’s the other challenge with GI issues is so often we’re not connecting those dots.

[00:11:13] JJ Virgin: Mm-hmm. Like some of the obvious things like gas and bloating or constipation or diarrhea. Oh. But you may not connect the dots between your joint pain. Or your skin issues. Um, first of all, before we go into like how you would look, look at all of this, what are some of the different things that a gut problem can, can cause beyond the obvious gut symptoms?

[00:11:35] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, I mean, you’re right on the money there, essentially everything. Of course, I’m biased because this is like what we, what I do and what I’ve dedicated my life to, but, um, brain fog, right? Really bad brain fog. It can contribute to, um, heightened levels of anxiety or, and depression. Um, we can see a lot of skin issues.

[00:11:53] Hannah Aylward: So we have, like, I have someone on my team who specializes in the gut skin connection, um, because we can get really like direct in that kind of work and we’ll see a lot of different gut infections, gut bacterial imbalances present in conditions like acne, eczema, psoriasis. Um, thyroid issues. So like anytime someone has hypothyroidism or Hashimoto’s, I mean, we have to take a look at the gut because the gut influences the thyroid and then the thyroid influences the gut as well.

[00:12:21] Hannah Aylward: Um, sometimes weight gain, you know, I would say like a little less that I, that’s not my first go-to, but if that, if the gut is influencing the thyroid, then we’ll see the metabolic function, you know, slow down. So there’s that. Um, those are probably some of the most con. Things that we see in conjunction with just the chronic GI issues and the, you know, quote unquote IBS.

[00:12:42] JJ Virgin: So someone coming in and they’re, they’re wanna go and look and say, okay, what could be going on? What would be the first thing that you would look at? Would it be a stool test?

[00:12:53] Hannah Aylward: Yeah. So, you know, I would say it kind of depends on where the client is at in their journey. We tend to see a lot of people who have like done a lot of stuff already.

[00:13:01] Hannah Aylward: So our client is not someone that needs to like. Eat less processed food, right? Our client is like, they’ve done all of that. They’re pretty advanced, they’re well educated, and then they’re like, I don’t know what’s going on. So we non-negotiable. We’re running functional stool testing. I see it. It was a complete game changer in my personal journey.

[00:13:18] Hannah Aylward: Which one do

[00:13:19] JJ Virgin: you love?

[00:13:19] Hannah Aylward: We run the GI Map by Diagnostic Solutions Lab. Um, truthfully, I think there’s like ups and like positives and negatives to all of them. I think no test is perfect. Um, I think you’ve really gotta know how to, how to take a look at it and kind of where it falls flat. We’ve learned over the years, ’cause we’ve been running it for probably five or six years now.

[00:13:37] Hannah Aylward: Um, but that’s gonna show us. Tons of different microbial imbalances, bacterial, fungal, parasitic infections, um, bacterial infections, and also maldigestion patterns. So are you actually digesting your food efficiently? Because that alone can cause chronic bloating and GI issues if you just don’t have enough stomach acid or you’re not producing adequate pancreatic enzymes or anything like that.

[00:13:58] Hannah Aylward: So the stool test is gonna give us a good kind of like, bit of data to work with that can inform what we do next with the client.

[00:14:07] JJ Virgin: You know, it really seems to me, and I just did one through Vibrant Labs. Mm-hmm. I’d always done the DSL GI Map before, and I did the Vibrant Labs, which I thought was fantastic.

[00:14:16] JJ Virgin: Awesome. And it really strikes me that, you know, when we do physicals, like when someone goes to their doctor to get a physical mm-hmm. Like I look at it and go, I think we’re doing the dumbest stuff. You know, like what if you went to the doctor to get the physical and you had a body composition test, a hand grip test, a VO two max, a stool test, and you know, and then started to look at some other things too, and things like a fasting insulin and vitamin D.

[00:14:41] JJ Virgin: Mm-hmm. But like, you know, Hippocrates was right on everything starting in the gut. If your gut’s not working right. Nothing else is gonna work. Right. So it’s, I I’m thinking of all the years of looking at stool tests and I’ve never had someone do a stool test and have it look perfect. Ever have you.

[00:14:58] JJ Virgin: Exactly,

[00:14:59] Hannah Aylward: exactly. Yeah. I mean, I agree with you there. And sometimes we get that question like, why isn’t my doctor running this? You know, or, or my doctor doesn’t even know what this is. And I’m like, you know, I think once again, I could get up, I could get up, get up on my soapbox, but you know, there’s a lot of reasons kind of why that could be happening and.

[00:15:15] Hannah Aylward: We get, doctors will refer people to us and then some people, you know, some doctors don’t like think it’s a joke, so it’s really, truly hit or miss. But, um, I do think, yeah, I mean, we can always find something that can be tweaked to help people feel a lot better.

[00:15:31] JJ Virgin: Yeah. And I know the functional docs, they all, they, they look at these, so.

[00:15:36] JJ Virgin: Mm-hmm. You know, it’s more the traditional, it’s not their fault, it’s the fault of the educational system. Yeah. That this just hasn’t caught up. There’s that 20 year rule, so. Someone does a stool test. And let’s say that you find poor microbiome diversity, which I think is probably a pretty chronic issue out there.

[00:15:55] JJ Virgin: What are some of the things that you do to help? Why is that a problem, first of all? Mm-hmm. And then what are some of the things that you would do for that?

[00:16:02] Hannah Aylward: Yes. So, um. We can add in a lot of targeted nutrition support to support the gut microbiome and support that gut proliferation. This is a problem because you are, to put it simply like your good gut bacteria, help to kind of weed out the bad gut bacteria and help to weed out the other microbes that can be present in the gut.

[00:16:22] Hannah Aylward: Things that are naturally occurring like fungi or yeast like archaea, like parasites. So your good gut bacteria when they’re kind of like taking up house where there’s gonna be less room for things like fungi to overgrow. And we know that when we have an overgrowth of yeast or candida, most people would probably know it as candida overgrowth.

[00:16:39] Hannah Aylward: I mean, that can cause tons of symptoms for people recurring. Yeast infections lots. We see it a lot in like very prominently in skin conditions, rashes, histamine stuff. Um, chronic like diarrhea and bloating. So your gut bacteria kind of help to like maintain this ecosystem. The other thing is that certain gut microbes, you know, will help with gut motility.

[00:17:00] Hannah Aylward: Certain gut microbes will help with metabolic function. Certain gut microbes like akkermansia eosinophilia, this is one that helps to maintain a strong mucosal barrier of the gut lining that helps to kind of then maintain that epithelial. Epithelial barrier, barrier of that gut lining, so that like cellular layer, it basically like protecting us from things like leaky gut.

[00:17:19] Hannah Aylward: So these gut microbes play so many different roles and even, you know, 20% or so of our thyroid hormone is converted in our gut microbiome. So we want a lot of these good gut microbes in, in the gut microbiome. Um, how we can help support these. Yeah, lots of targeted nutrition, which is really fun and cool.

[00:17:39] Hannah Aylward: And we can get a bit like. Specific with it, depending on what you have. So when it comes to akkermansia eosinophilia, we see like very low levels of this very commonly. Um, the research also shows that it’s pretty, um, prevalent to have low levels of this when it comes to different skin conditions like psoriasis or eczema.

[00:17:56] Hannah Aylward: So once again, like really cool. Cool, um, research that we can use in order to bump up those levels. We can increase our intake of like polyphenol rich foods. So think of foods that stain things that you put on your cutting board and they leave a mark. So things like beets or raspberries, um, increasing your intake of these foods can help to boost the levels of this good gut bacteria.

[00:18:18] Hannah Aylward: So, kind of depends on what’s present, but we can bring in a lot of nutrition support here.

[00:18:23] JJ Virgin: So what do you think of the, um, the 30 plants a week American Gut Project? Are you, do you think that will do it or do we need more than that?

[00:18:33] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, it’s a good question. Um, I think it’s great. I think like that’s kind of the biggest data source that we have, so it’s, it’s great to work with that.

[00:18:42] Hannah Aylward: I would say a lot of our clients are too sensitive to eat a lot of these fibers. So when we’ve got a big, like bacterial overgrowth issue or fungal overgrowth, or someone like has sibo, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, they’re gonna be really reactive to fibers. So they’re gonna do better on like. A lower fiber diet only temporarily.

[00:19:01] Hannah Aylward: I am a big fan of getting in enough fiber, like long term, but that’s where people can get like super confused, right? Because they’re like, I’m eating, I read this research and I’m eating all these different plants, and I’m like more bloated than ever. Yeah, I’m more gassy than ever and I’m super uncomfortable.

[00:19:16] Hannah Aylward: And that’s just kind of a sign that there’s like a deeper gut environment issue. Um, but for most people, if you’re, if you don’t have a lot of these chronic digestive issues and you’re just looking to like maintain good health and good gut health. Then yeah, absolutely Bring in a lot of plant diversity and just make sure you’re getting in some good prebiotics as well.

[00:19:33] JJ Virgin: And what are some of your favorite prebiotics?

[00:19:35] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, I love hickma ’cause it’s like really yummy. It’s great to chop up and you can dip it in like guacamole and hummus and it’s really, um, refreshing. I think. So that’s a great one. Um, we can also use like dandelion greens. We can also use Sun Sunchoke or Jerusalem artichoke.

[00:19:54] Hannah Aylward: Um, sometimes it can be helpful to get them in through like a powder, so I try to. Get in, like personally a very diverse diet. But I also will do a scoop of a good prebiotic powder in my coffee every morning. Um, so that can be a nice way to just kinda make sure that you’re getting it in. And then also resistant starches.

[00:20:10] Hannah Aylward: So like cooked and cooled potatoes, um, oats can be great. Make sure to add in your protein to help support your blood sugar. Um, and, and different, yeah. Things like that.

[00:20:20] JJ Virgin: Yeah, I think it’s a good idea on the powder thing. ’cause you look at a lot of the prebiotic foods and you’re like, hmm. You know. I just haven’t seen the dandelion greens out there much on the menu.

[00:20:32] JJ Virgin: Um, whenever I see sunchokes though, if I’m out, they’re always, they’re an always a yes. Mm-hmm. So let’s get into leaky gut and food sensitivities. Mm-hmm. This is one, it was interesting. Um. I first ran across this because I was actually teaching for Metametrics back when there was Metametrics and they had a food sensitivity test.

[00:20:52] JJ Virgin: Mm-hmm. And what I saw was that the foods that were most common for people to react to were not what the elimination diet. The elimination diet back then was a very complicated thing. And I’m like, I don’t see anyone reacting to the foods on this elimination diet. They’re reacting to these foods. So I redid it and simplified it and that’s, it was all based on what I was seeing with.

[00:21:11] JJ Virgin: All of these people. Mm. And back then, literally people would say to me, there is no such thing as. Leaky gut. I’m like, all right, well, um, you know, I just know what I’m seeing here, so I’d love you to share, ’cause you’ve already mentioned stress, which I think is the biggest culprit for leaky gut. Mm-hmm. Um, but what you’re seeing with leaky gut, are you using an IgG four test?

[00:21:36] JJ Virgin: Like what are you doing to identify it? How are you healing the gut? What’s your protocol there?

[00:21:40] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, great question. I would say, so when we run the GI map, there is a marker like, um, it’s called zonulin that you can run on the GI map. But to be honest, we don’t add it onto the GI map very often. It’s an extra cost to the client and my kind of like assumption is if you’ve got a lot of dysbiosis.

[00:21:58] Hannah Aylward: We’ve got gut barrier issues. Like we don’t, we don’t really need to test for it, you know? So, um, also because of course the supports that we’re gonna be adding in are not, they’re unlikely to do like damage, right? They’re not, we’re not working with medications or anything like that. So, um, so yeah, I think we can obviously run into a lot of issues when we have that increase intestinal permeability.

[00:22:17] Hannah Aylward: And what we see is a lot of dysbiosis, whether it’s bacterial overgrowth, um, overgrowth of like histamine producing bacteria. I feel like there’s a big uprise in. Histamine issues right now that it’s kind of like making the rounds. And I have, and

[00:22:30] JJ Virgin: don’t you think they’re doing this? Like, we’ll go back over to this.

[00:22:33] JJ Virgin: But when I look at histamine, then people are like, well, you just have to eat a low histamine diet. I go, don’t we need to figure out why you got a histamine problem? Exactly, exactly.

[00:22:41] Hannah Aylward: Yeah. I feel like I’m like screaming that from the rooftop these days. ’cause anytime something kind of like hits, hits the algorithm, then it’s all over.

[00:22:49] Hannah Aylward: And then people are asking, asking us about histamine stuff and it’s obviously it’s very real and we just have to get into. You know, are you overproducing or can you not break it down efficiently or both? And usually it’s, it’s a bit of both, you know, and that that can contribute the, the intestinal permeability can contribute to the histamine issues as well.

[00:23:06] JJ Virgin: I. Great. I want to talk histamines, oxalates, lectins, all that. But let’s go back over to just the food sensitivity, so mm-hmm. How are you looking at food sensitivity? Are you doing, and what, what type of testing are you doing or are you doing testing?

[00:23:20] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, we don’t run food sensitivity tests, which I know is like very different than what.

[00:23:24] Hannah Aylward: A lot of people’s approach. Um, uh, my goal is for clients to be able to tolerate as many foods as possible. And we don’t wanna strip foods out of the diet unless they’re like actively reacting to the foods. ’cause I think it’s very quickly just a downward spiral of then people are afraid to eat pineapple.

[00:23:40] Hannah Aylward: You know? And I’m just like, this is not, we don’t need this. There’s too much, you know, like, I would rather you eating healthy whole foods. Yes, we wanna take out the ultra processed stuff, of course. But, um, when it comes to food sensitivities, you know. We’re on the same page. We have to get down to the reason why you’re reacting to the foods in the first place.

[00:23:59] Hannah Aylward: And this is always a deeper gut environment issue. The gut lining plays a huge role in this. Also, gut bacterial imbalances, um, you know, and, but also fungal imbalances, et cetera, parasitic infections, and then our digestive capacity. So. You know, digestive capacity and our ability to actually break down our foods is a bit more in the like food intolerance space.

[00:24:19] Hannah Aylward: But to the client, people lump together food sensitivities and intolerances and it, they’re just like, I’m reacting to this food, so what do I do? And you know, we can have a lot of reactions if we just can’t break down the food very well. So, for example, if someone feels like they’re eating fats, they’re eating like, you know, avocados and coconut oil and almond butter, and they are, feel sensitive to those foods.

[00:24:40] Hannah Aylward: Well, the underlying reason to that could be fat maldigestion and we’ve gotta support liver function and bile flow. ’cause bile helps to break down those fats and absorb those fat soluble nutrients. And this is what, like, we’re seeing this very prevalently in our clients right now, like this fat mal digestion and liver picture.

[00:24:56] Hannah Aylward: Why do you

[00:24:56] JJ Virgin: think that is? ’cause it feels like for, you know, protein, digestive issues have been around for a long time.

[00:25:02] Hannah Aylward: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:02] JJ Virgin: I think probably a big contributor to food sensitivities, but I, you know, the fat one I think is a big deal that hasn’t really been addressed.

[00:25:10] Hannah Aylward: Yeah. Is

[00:25:10] JJ Virgin: it because people are like going keto and then recognizing it, or what’s going on?

[00:25:14] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, that’s a thought. Um, you know, those

[00:25:17] JJ Virgin: kind of ketos kind of pass, you know how diet trends are. I know. Or maybe they’re carnivore. I don’t know.

[00:25:23] Hannah Aylward: I know, I know. And then people go car carnivore, and then they’re like, I’m, I have diarrhea. And I’m like, it’s because you’re eating all this bad and you can’t break it down, you know?

[00:25:30] Hannah Aylward: But. Um, if you want my honest, like my honest take is,

[00:25:35] JJ Virgin: no, let’s just make stuff up. Yes.

[00:25:37] Hannah Aylward: Well I think, I think that the birth control picture, like women being on birth control for a really long time, is playing a role. People

[00:25:42] JJ Virgin: still doing birth control pills. I think so. After all

[00:25:45] Hannah Aylward: the stuff

[00:25:46] JJ Virgin: that’s come out about it.

[00:25:47] JJ Virgin: Right. Oh my goodness.

[00:25:48] Hannah Aylward: I know. I know well, and I always hold, I take the stance of like, listen, you gotta weigh the pros and cons with any medical intervention. You weigh the pros and cons. You do your research, and then you make your informed decision. I, I get really upset when people don’t have, they can’t make an informed decision ’cause they’ve been giving, given no information.

[00:26:05] Hannah Aylward: Right? For some people still gonna be worth it. For a lot of people it won’t be, you know, so, um, but that use of birth control over time, I mean, that can cause some extra stress on the liver and gallbladder and it can increase estrogen levels, which can also, um, cause strain on the gallbladder. You know, women are at higher risk for gallbladder removals due to higher levels of estrogen.

[00:26:25] Hannah Aylward: So I think that’s playing a big role. I also think the fact that women. Are getting more exposure to chemicals through things like beauty products and skincare and all of that. I mean, our liver, it’s just putting our liver under, you know, it’s gotta do a better job basically. Um, so I think there’s quite a few reasons.

[00:26:42] Hannah Aylward: Alcohol consumption, you know, all of these things can, can be playing a role and whenever we have a gallbladder removal, we always have to ask, you know, what? How did this happen and if you need your gallbladder removed, there was probably a liver issue that’s been, you know, brewing in there for a little while that impacted the bile.

[00:26:58] Hannah Aylward: ’cause the liver is what actually, you know, creates the bile and produces it. So I think there’s yeah, many, many different reasons. And then stress of course.

[00:27:08] JJ Virgin: Yes. It is interesting. You know, I used to see a lot of people one-on-one. I never had any men with gallbladder issues.

[00:27:17] Hannah Aylward: Hmm. Yeah. Never.

[00:27:19] JJ Virgin: Only women.

[00:27:20] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, well that estrogen component, you know, that estrogen component and that can be so many women.

[00:27:26] Hannah Aylward: I mean, I’m kind of opening up a can of worms here, but so many women lean more estrogen dominant and we can also, my opinion, trace that back to stress. ’cause stress over time, increased cortisol will, will contribute to lower progesterone levels, which will contribute to that estrogen dominance picture.

[00:27:41] Hannah Aylward: So it all kind of makes sense when we trace it back.

[00:27:46] JJ Virgin: Yeah, it definitely makes sense. So over to then the, with the leaky gut. Piece of it.

[00:27:53] Hannah Aylward: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:53] JJ Virgin: What are some of the things that you like to put in place to help heal the gut back?

[00:27:58] Hannah Aylward: Yeah. The number one thing is we have to look at the microbiome piece and make sure that we’re cleaning up the microbiome piece so we’re not causing more irritation of that intestinal barrier.

[00:28:09] Hannah Aylward: So bacterial overgrowths, infections. Things like that. Um, then we can of course bring in targeted nutrient support. So sometimes L-glutamine is helpful. Um, we can use things like zinc. Omega threes can be great. Vitamin A can be great. Immunoglobulins are great for gut immune function. So those are some more kind of targeted strategies that we can bring in.

[00:28:28] Hannah Aylward: Um, and then of course supporting the, the regrowth of, and the repopulation of those good gut bugs. Once, once again, going back to akkermansia, like low levels of that can contribute to intestinal permeability. So. We’re, we take the approach of not just, oh, here, take this one. Leaky gut supplement. Right?

[00:28:45] Hannah Aylward: We’re like, what is everything that’s contributing to this breakdown in the intestinal barrier, including the stress piece? ’cause we know cortisol will poke holes in that mucosal mm-hmm. Layer of the gut lining. So it really takes like a whole comprehensive approach.

[00:29:00] JJ Virgin: I do think that, um. Part of the issue we have with GLP one, like the whole GLP one phenomenon.

[00:29:08] JJ Virgin: I think part of it is because we aren’t producing what we need to be producing because of leaky gut. Now I think there’s some resistance too, but I think that’s part of it. ’cause you’ve just mentioned. Akkermansia multiple times, so mm-hmm. I think that is a piece of it with, um, with sibo. Mm-hmm. Are you going and doing advanced testing with sibo or are you just able to see what you need to do off of a stool test?

[00:29:30] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, so the stool test is technically checking the large intestine, so we won’t get like a positive or negative for. SIBO in with that test. Um, the gold standard for diagnosing SIBO would be your breath test. Um, some of our clients have already gotten them. They’ll come in with those from their doctor.

[00:29:45] Hannah Aylward: Um, sometimes they’ll go for them. We can, and I’m always, you know, this will probably get a little bit of eye roll, but, um, we can see some suggestions of patterns on the GI map that that could be suggestive of an overgrowth in the small intestine. Mm-hmm. So if we see that your bacterial phyla that make up a huge portion of your gut microbiome are like really overgrown.

[00:30:06] Hannah Aylward: We can, you know, kind of make the assumption like you’ve just got too much gut bacteria. It’s likely happening in the small intestine as well. Um, but we, when we build out protocols, we’re gonna kind of address things in the small intestine, large intestine anyway. So sometimes it is like, and every client’s a little different, honestly.

[00:30:21] Hannah Aylward: Sometimes we wanna send for placebo breath test, they go through their doctor, through their gastro, they get that done. And sometimes it’s not fully, fully necessary.

[00:30:31] JJ Virgin: I would imagine the symptoms are probably pretty clear too.

[00:30:34] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, yeah,

[00:30:34] JJ Virgin: yeah.

[00:30:35] Hannah Aylward: Yeah. I mean that chronic, like upper abdominal bloating, um, lots of reaction to fibers.

[00:30:40] Hannah Aylward: I would say That’s, you know, and anyone that feels, if you try a low FODMAP diet and you do feel a lot better, I would say that’s like a pretty clear sign that you’ve got some bacterial overgrowth

[00:30:51] JJ Virgin: share with everybody, just in case someone doesn’t know what a low FODMAP diet is, what. Um, what this is and why someone would do this.

[00:31:00] JJ Virgin: Yeah.

[00:31:01] Hannah Aylward: And how to

[00:31:01] JJ Virgin: do

[00:31:01] Hannah Aylward: it. Yeah. Yep. So FODMAPs are just fermentable carbohydrates. They’re actually very good for a gut microbiome because they feed our gut bacteria, but we run into a lot of issues with them when we have an overgrowth of those gut bacteria. ’cause we’re kind of like. We’re feeding those bacteria that we have too much of, and those bacteria eat up these fibers and ferment them, and then that’s what’s gonna give off gas that you’ll feel as bloating and gas and pressure in your abdomen.

[00:31:23] Hannah Aylward: So low FODMAP is very commonly given out by gastroenterologists or some like, um, traditionally trained like dieticians. You know, you’ll just say, they’ll just say, go on the low FODMAP diet. The idea is to bring them back into the diet eventually. A lot of people don’t. Sometimes we p see people that have been on low FODMAP for like 13 years and I’m like, oh, goodness gracious.

[00:31:44] Hannah Aylward: Because it’s hard. Right.

[00:31:45] JJ Virgin: Well, important point here that I think is not said enough is that the diet that will heal you is not the diet that’s gonna sustain your health. Mm-hmm. So there are different things. Mm-hmm. Like they’re, and that’s when, when I look at something like the carnivore diet mm-hmm. If someone’s super reactive, that could be a place you could go first.

[00:32:02] JJ Virgin: Mm-hmm. However, and I’d love your input on that one. It’s like I look at that, let’s go back to fodmap, but then we can go to carnivore and talk gut microbiome. ’cause I still can’t wrap my brain around. Mm-hmm. That that would be the right thing. Long term. Okay. Back over to fodmap.

[00:32:18] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, so really the low FODMAP diet is just a restrict, like restricting or reducing the amount of fermentable carbohydrates that you’re getting in.

[00:32:25] Hannah Aylward: It gets a bit tricky.

[00:32:26] JJ Virgin: Different, some examples.

[00:32:27] Hannah Aylward: Some examples. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Apples. Um, too much broccoli. Typically, people will be really reactive. To like onions and garlic, you’re like, I cannot tolerate those at all. But the tricky thing is that it’s a lot of healthy foods. So once again, we find ourselves not wanting to eat more than like a couple pieces of broccoli or, you know, a quarter of an avocado or something like that.

[00:32:47] Hannah Aylward: And that’s when, that’s when you lose me. ’cause once again, I know that that’s not, it’s not sustainable. So at the core, we have to address the intestinal, like bacterial overgrowth that’s contributing to the. Basically like need for the low FODMAP diet, but also what caused that. So we always take, like I say, we take a root cause approach to a root cause approach.

[00:33:07] Hannah Aylward: So instead of going the Sibos, causing the need for the low FODMAP diet and the bloating and the constipation and everything, we’re going well, what caused the SIBO. Motility issues in, you know, the, it’s not really a bacterial issue at its core. It’s a gut motility issue. Why did we get the overgrowth in the small intestine when the large majority of our gut bacteria are in the lar, in the large intestine?

[00:33:26] Hannah Aylward: So, you know, what kind of broke down to allow these bacteria to flourish and overgrow the small intestine? It’s our gut motility. And what caused that? Low stomach acid, chronic stress, low pancreatic enzyme secretion, maybe another gut infection, like helicobacter pylori. So we like to take it, you know, a couple layers back.

[00:33:43] Hannah Aylward: But yeah, low fodmap, I mean, if you trial it and you feel a lot better, we’re probably looking at a bacterial overgrowth. I wouldn’t say a hundred percent. You know, testing’s always gonna be best, but that’s kind of what it is in a nutshell, just reducing some of those foods.

[00:33:55] JJ Virgin: Now for sibo, are you able to get rid of SIBO without having to use.

[00:34:03] JJ Virgin: Antibiotics.

[00:34:04] Hannah Aylward: I would say yes. Yeah. So I’ve always

[00:34:07] JJ Virgin: seen everybody kind of kill it, scorch the earth with Xifaxan. So,

[00:34:11] Hannah Aylward: yeah. And, and the research shows that, you know, it has about a 40 to 60% success rate. That’s, that’s shown, right? So it doesn’t work for everyone. Sometimes you need multiple rounds of it, and sometimes you get the.

[00:34:23] Hannah Aylward: What we see consider is more rare. You get the rare case where it’s like someone does one round of rifaximin and then they feel a lot better and then that’s it, and they can move on with their life. That’s just not who we see typically. Um, because it doesn’t address fungal overgrowth in the small intestine, it has a 40 60% success rate off the bat.

[00:34:39] Hannah Aylward: And then sometimes these bacteria can become resistant to different antibiotics too. So, um, you know, herbals can be great to utilize here.

[00:34:47] JJ Virgin: Nice. So. Oxalates, histamine, lectins, um, you know, there’s been books written about each of these things in a way that would scare the crap out of people. Yeah. Um. What is your take on each of these things?

[00:35:07] JJ Virgin: Are these more a sign that you have a gut dysbiosis issue that needs to be addressed? Are there any issues with specific foods, especially things like lectins that we should be aware of? What are your thoughts about all of these things?

[00:35:20] Hannah Aylward: Yes. I also wanna know your thoughts on all of these things. Um, so this may not be popular, but, um, I’m not a big fan of this heavy restriction.

[00:35:30] Hannah Aylward: I don’t think that these foods are causing a lot of issues. It’s just, it’s honestly not what we’re seeing in our clients. We’re not seeing people pull these foods and then everything gets a lot better. I do think it’s. Typically a sign that something else is going on. So when it comes to oxalates, those that are, you know, more sensitive to oxalates, sometimes it’s a mold thing.

[00:35:47] Hannah Aylward: The, the mold toxicity is what’s contributing to the sensitivity to oxalates. Um, when it comes to lectins, I think that there’s a lot of ways to reduce. That exposure too. So when it’s like beans and grains, like soak them, you know, and then that reduces

[00:36:00] JJ Virgin: who, who’s not soaking, like how would you eat that without soaking it?

[00:36:03] Hannah Aylward: Right. So I think it, I think it can be like blown, like blown outta proportion a little bit. And I just am really, I really don’t want people fearing healthy whole foods, like black beans and quinoa and like brown rice. You know? I just don’t, I don’t, I don’t think that’s the reason for our health. Um, our nation’s health crisis.

[00:36:23] JJ Virgin: No, it’s not. I, I will tell you, um. I mean, the way I’ve written every book is you go through a process to figure out which foods work for you and which foods don’t. And you know, I wrote Virgin Diet 2.0. I just was like, I didn’t feel, I was like, I don’t wanna publish this. I wanna do something else. However, that book was like, okay, and now here’s what you need to do to heal your gut.

[00:36:42] JJ Virgin: Because that’s the other side of it. It’s like that book was, identify what’s causing an issue right now. It’s not all of them. Mm-hmm. And then go heal your gut. And see if you can get back to the point of eating all these things, which is the goal, although I would say I don’t think gluten. Mm-hmm. Um, at least in the United States.

[00:36:58] JJ Virgin: ’cause it’s a glyphosate, gluten, it’s, you can’t unpack, is it the glyphosate or the gluten? Mm-hmm. You know, so that’s a different one, but. Um, I think we’re on the same page with this, although it can be very exciting to demonize foods now I will demonize ultra processed garbage. Mm-hmm. Things. There are some things like, I’m sorry, I don’t believe in everything.

[00:37:20] JJ Virgin: In moderation. Mm-hmm. No, I don’t. So I’m not gonna go down that road. What about you?

[00:37:25] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, no, I, I agree. I, I don’t think it’s helpful to demonize these foods. Yes, of course. When I, when I say that, I mean healthy whole foods from the earth, right? So like beans and certain fruits and veggies and stuff like that.

[00:37:37] Hannah Aylward: You know, you’ll find these little sound bites on social, um, where it’s like, oxalates are the worst foods for you. And I’m just like, this is just absolutely not helping. Or neither is oatmeal. Like oatmeal is not the worst food that you could eat. Oatmeal’s not a peasant food people.

[00:37:51] JJ Virgin: Fun, right?

[00:37:52] Hannah Aylward: I’m just like, this is, this is not it.

[00:37:54] Hannah Aylward: So I, I agree and I think that’s where it can, it’s great that you brought that point up because it can feel very confusing for people because you do, like, in order to tolerate more of these foods, we do need to do some gut repairing. So it can be, I I love the phrase that you use, like what your, the diet that heals you may not be the diet that like sustains you.

[00:38:14] Hannah Aylward: And I think sometimes people have a hard time, um, really like understanding that ’cause it’s. It’s more nuanced, but that is what we see to be the truth.

[00:38:22] JJ Virgin: Yeah, I had a great nutrition mentor early on and he said, the sicker you are, the farther back in your ancestry you need to go. The reality with that phrase is that, you know, I think for most of us, it’s all of this ultra process, you know, and, and even the farming that’s.

[00:38:40] JJ Virgin: You know, poor soil and all that kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. And so that’s always made a ton of sense to me. But the obvious goal is you shouldn’t have to worry. Like I want to have some resilience. Mm-hmm. So that if I do go out somewhere and I do get a seed oil in my meal, I’m not like lying down with stomach cramps and a fetal position.

[00:38:58] JJ Virgin: So there’s, that’s the goal. Mm-hmm. And then the goal is to get a, I always say an A minus on your diet. Mm-hmm. You know, it’s like. You don’t need to get an A plus, but you do need to get an A minus. And there are, there are, I think there’s a difference. One of the things I’m wish that we would be able to unpack better, ’cause I think it’s so confusing for people, is there’s processing of food and there’s.

[00:39:20] JJ Virgin: Ultra processed food, and we really need to distinguish what makes something this like dirty, ultra processed, you know, not real food versus what just makes it convenient so that I can get my lentils. And I didn’t, like last night I made this, um, cauliflower, I love cauliflower peel off. So I made this cauliflower lentil peel off and I had these pre steamed lentils.

[00:39:42] JJ Virgin: Mm-hmm. Easy peasy, you know, way easier than me having to deal with them. So like, you know, that’s, but. That was processed, but that’s not like eating, you know, lentil chips made with. Some canola oil and some kind of weird sour cream fake thing on top, you know? So, yeah,

[00:40:00] Hannah Aylward: exactly. And, and I think that is the goal.

[00:40:03] Hannah Aylward: Like when I’m speaking to clients, I’m like, our goal is to get you to the point where you can tolerate more foods with less pain and you can live your life. You can go on the vacation and you can have some, you know, chips and guac or whatever, and, and you can be okay. You know, you won’t have to, you know.

[00:40:17] Hannah Aylward: Pick, quote unquote pay for it for days afterwards. Like that’s when we know, and that’s what I’ve experienced personally. I couldn’t, I didn’t touch gluten, I didn’t touch dairy, I didn’t touch any for like, honestly a decade. And I was, I was struggling still. You know, it wasn’t really doing the trick. And now I can go out for a burger and fries.

[00:40:35] Hannah Aylward: I don’t go out for a burger and fries every day, you know? But I can, if it’s a Friday night and it’s a celebration or whatever, I can get a good quality burger and some fries and I can enjoy that. And I can wake up the next day and, and I’m fine. And that’s what I want for, you know, our clients.

[00:40:49] JJ Virgin: I agree. I just also would love to figure out why it is I can go to Europe and eat whatever the heck I want and ever have an issue.

[00:40:55] JJ Virgin: It’s like with, it’s always the biggest, the biggest question, but I was the same. I couldn’t touch dairy. Mm-hmm. But I healed my gut back so. It’s like it was, it was like a whole world opened up and that that was what I kept trying to tell people. I go, this wasn’t drop seven foods forever. Mm-hmm. This was, you know, let’s take a little break and start to heal back your gut.

[00:41:15] JJ Virgin: So I love your message. Now you have a quiz. Tell us about the quiz that you’re gonna give everyone to be able to take.

[00:41:21] Hannah Aylward: Yes. So I developed a root cause assessment quiz, um, where basically you’ll answer 20 questions and it’ll give you some information in regards to like what could be the root cause of your gut and digestive issues.

[00:41:32] Hannah Aylward: Now of course, testing. Working with someone, this is the best way to go. However, you’ll get like a PDF, um, download afterwards. And there are, there’s a big breakdown of each and every root cause with education and best next steps there. So you can learn a lot. You can look at the signs that you have, some of these underlying root causes, what to do next, what that kind of means for your health.

[00:41:53] Hannah Aylward: I’m very big on education. I think it’s really important for people to like understand what’s going on and why, and what to do about it. So this root cause assessment quiz, it’s. Based off a digestive health assessment that we work with our clients with. So it’s, it’s good stuff and I’ve, people have taken it and then messaged me being like, I then got tested and this was right.

[00:42:12] Hannah Aylward: So, oh, how cool. Yeah.

[00:42:14] JJ Virgin: Oh, you start to get a feeling like you can’t explain it, where once you hear, hear it with somebody like, I know what, I know what this is. Oh. I know what it is, so, totally. Um, you know, I just see the world where hopefully with AI we’ll get to a point where we won’t really have to do a stool test that often anymore ’cause they’re just, it’s just not a fun thing.

[00:42:33] JJ Virgin: And it’s especially hard to get a client. They’re like, uh, you know, but the information right now is amazing and I don’t really know any other great way to really see stuff. You can find in a stool test. Like it’s.

[00:42:46] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, we, I just see it be like it’s a total game changer. ’cause then we’re not guessing, we’re not, you know, you’re not just buying like probiotics and enzymes and all of this stuff, hoping it will help.

[00:42:55] Hannah Aylward: It could just

[00:42:56] JJ Virgin: make you worse. Yes, too. I mean, I can’t tell you how many people would come into me. I had one poor gal who I. You know, and you’d, you’ll hear this and go, oh, I know what this is. Um, someone referred her to me and said, she just needs a cheerleader. I’m like, really? You’re referring me to her and she needs a cheerleader?

[00:43:13] JJ Virgin: I’m like, you not that person? And she’s like, yeah. I just, I just try not to eat it all anymore because every time I eat, the minute I eat, guess what happens? I get bloated. I’m like, I know what this is, and. Every doctor she would go to just kept giving her probiotics, you know? And I’m like, well, that’s just gonna make it worse.

[00:43:30] JJ Virgin: Mm-hmm. So, you know, that’s the thing that testing can really help you do is know that you’re not crazy. Mm-hmm. And probably help you heal a lot faster instead of throwing a bunch of money and supplements that generally, if it’s not targeted, could make you feel worse. Not better. Which is. Such a bummer.

[00:43:48] Hannah Aylward: Yeah, 100% agree. I mean, histamine issues, certain probiotics will flare you so bad. Sibo, certain probiotics will flare you. Fungal overgrowth, right? So there is a lot of nuance to it and I wish I found it earlier on in my journey, like it would’ve saved me years of elimination diets that weren’t really even getting me feeling a lot better.

[00:44:06] Hannah Aylward: So I do think it’s. It can be, yeah, such a game changer and save a lot of time and money in the long run.

[00:44:11] JJ Virgin: Yes. Yes. Agreed. All right, well we will put that quiz at JJ virgin.com/hannah, and that is H-A-N-N-A-H. So the same both ways. Mm-hmm. Right. Yep. There you go, Hannah. So again, grab the quiz, jj virgin.com/hannah and Hannah, thank you so much.

[00:44:29] JJ Virgin: I’m, I was very excited to. Do a big deep dive into gut ’cause we haven’t done one for a long while and you were just absolutely fantastic with all of your information. So I appreciate it.

[00:44:38] Hannah Aylward: Thanks so much for having me. It was fun.

[00:44:45] JJ Virgin: Be sure to join me next time for more tools, tips, and techniques you can incorporate into everyday life. To ensure you look and feel great and are built to last, check me out on Instagram, Facebook, and my website, jj virgin.com. And make sure to follow my [email protected] so you don’t miss a.

[00:45:06] JJ Virgin: Single episode. And hey, if you’re loving what you hear, don’t forget to leave a review. Your reviews make a big difference in helping me reach more incredible women just like you, to spread the word about aging powerfully after 40. Thanks for tuning in and I’ll catch you on the next episode.

[00:45:34] JJ Virgin: Hey, JJ here, and just a reminder that the Well Beyond 40 Podcast offers health, wellness, fitness, and nutritional information. That’s designed for educational and entertainment purposes only. You should not rely on this information as a substitute for, nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

[00:45:51] JJ Virgin: If you have any concerns or questions about your health, you should always consult with a physician or other healthcare professional. Make sure that you do not disregard, avoid, or delay obtaining medical or health related advice from your healthcare professional because of something you may have heard on the show or read in our show notes, the use of any information provided on the show is solely at your own risk.

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