ATHE_Transcript_Ep 508_James Schmachtenberger
JJ Virgin: [00:00:00] Hey, this is JJ Virgin. Welcome and thanks so much for joining me. This is Ask the Health Expert here. I put the Power of Health in your hands and give you access to the top people in health and wellness. In each episode, I share safe ways to get healthy, lose weight, heal your gut detox and lots more. So if you wanna get healthy and get off the dieting for life merry-go-round, I'll give you strategies that will help you look and feel better fast.
All right. If you've been listening to the podcast at all, you probably know that I'm really interested. Longevity, brain health, body composition, exercise, diet, diet in terms of the way we eat that best supports us. I have a whole thing on what diet should and shouldn't be, and [00:01:00] I love to find super smart people who are well researched to come on and share the latest in any of these topics.
And today's guest is exactly one of those people. I know him and his brother Daniel from from San Diego. It's this. We are having James Schmachtenberger today. He is the co-founder and CEO of Neuro Hack of Neuro. Hack of Hacker. I can say this collective and They are doing some super cool stuff over there at Neuro Hacker.
This company's focused on making groundbreaking products for health and and wellbeing through complex system science. So they are really digging into the research and tackling the tough, the tough questions. And that one today is gonna be the tough question on. Anti-aging, but really in anti-aging we are gonna be looking at senescence cells.
And if you're going what JJ are senescent cells, what are you talking about? We will be talking about the senescent cells. What you can do to break these down. What the heck they are, how they [00:02:00] are impacting. Aging in every area of your body and what you can do about them that you'll notice quickly, which is super exciting.
I always love and you'll find that some of the things you're already doing, because you've been listening to the podcast and you are exercising and eating the foods that work for you and lowering your sugar impact and getting rid of snacking and shortening your feeding window, all that stuff is helping and now you have some other things that you can throw into your toolbox.
So I will be right back. With James.
All right, so I am here with one of the smartest human beings on the planet and I'm super excited to be diving into longevity cuz I am all about anything right now that is gonna make it so. In my eighties and nineties and hundreds, I'm like, you know, running up and down the stairs. That's it, . [00:03:00] So I'm hoping James, that you have some solutions here for us on how we can just like kind of stay 30 for as long as possible.
So what you got ?
James Schmachtenberger: Absolutely. Well, first it's, it's great to be here. Thank you for having me. And yeah, I'm excited to dive into, I know you
JJ Virgin: look amazing for 80, like you're definitely selling yourself. All right. Not quite 80 yet, but it's yes. Not, not quite. If you could see him if you're watching this, you're knowing I'm full of it anyway, but we are diving into aging.
What, why are you so excited about this? What got you interested in this? Well,
James Schmachtenberger: I guess aging as a whole. One of the key reasons that I'm excited about it is it's not just about slowing the aging process, the things that you do that would orient around slowing the aging process. Also just make health better across the board.
JJ Virgin: And you know, and don't you find that with most stuff, it's like, okay, you wanna have better blood sugar control, look at all the other things it fixes, you know? Right. So it's, it's [00:04:00] good to know that that's the same here as well. And I kind of cut you off. What were you gonna say on, in addition to that?
James Schmachtenberger: Well, you're definitely right. Like, pretty much anything you do for like one area of health is going to have, you know, effects across everything and make you feel better. But then I think particularly in the anti-aging space, it's often even more so because you're working at pretty foundational levels, right?
Like a lot of the stuff in and around anti-aging is like at the level of the cell. So when you make cells function better, everything functions better, right? And that I think is where it gets exciting. Cuz of course we all wanna live to. Much older than what is considered normal today, right? We wanna be running stairs at a hundred, 120, but it's not just about how long you live.
Like one of the things we talk about at Neurohacker a lot is the term health span. And that's not necessarily how many years you're on the planet, but it's how many years are you in thriving health? Right. Because if we can add an extra 10, 20 years to life, but your bedridden in pain not
JJ Virgin: necessarily the most [00:05:00] exciting.
No, thank you . Right. I think that's everyone's worst, you know, worst nightmare is to live out the last part of their life that they spent all their life working towards being able to enjoy and not be able to enjoy it. That would be a shame. And you say that it all starts at the cellular level. Yes. So, and improving your cells.
So how, how do we, how do we. Know what we're looking at there. Like how do you, how would you measure that and what do you do? Like, what are the things that you can do that can improve, improve your health at the cellular level? .
James Schmachtenberger: So, I mean, there, there's a number of things, right? There's, there's what's known as the hallmarks of aging.
So these are like nine different areas that are kind of the core pieces and research around what cause aging, and then also what can slow the aging process, right? So you have things like mitochondrial health things like stem cells, telomere length or like what I think we're gonna dive into a little bit today is senescent cells, which.
Is probably a term that no one's ever heard of, cuz I hadn't even heard of it [00:06:00] not that long ago before my research team brought it to me. But so, you know, talking about cells, the way that healthy cells are intended to function is they're able to create immense amounts of energy that the body utilizes for everything.
And as they're healthy, they continue to divide and replicate. And then once they get past the point where they're able to divide and replicate, there's something that's supposed to kick in called apoptosis, which basically means scheduled cell die off. Right? Once they're no longer healthy, they're supposed to die.
And in healthy systems, that's generally what happens. But as we age and some of the things start to break down, particularly as our immune systems aren't as strong as they once were, then some cells will become senescent. And what that means is essentially they're still living and taking up resources, but they're no longer contributing anything positive.
So they're basically just taking away resources that could go to healthy cells. And what's worse than just taking up [00:07:00] resources is that once a cell becomes senescence, they start emitting a series of proteins that cause the other cells around them to also become senescent. So it actually, oh boy. Rapid effect on increasing the aging process.
JJ Virgin: That's terrifying. Is there a way to, to measure that protein to know? If that's going on and how much of it's going on There
James Schmachtenberger: is, but not super easily. So like a lot of the, like the research that's been done on this unfortunately involves taking tissue samples right. And so a lot of the research has been done more in animal models than humans, though.
You know, there has been quite a bit in humans, but, you know, most people don't wanna have like samples taken out of their body and measured all the time. So what has then kind of translated from that is being able to look at the core symptoms associated with senescent cells buildup and be able to see reductions in those symptoms.
JJ Virgin: What are those symptoms? [00:08:00]
James Schmachtenberger: I mean, it can, it can be very like quite varied because every single type of tissue in our body can build up senescent cells. And so you've got senescent cells that are in skin tissue and fat tissue and muscle tissue and brain tissue. And like each one is going to have different symptoms.
But the thing that's been most heavily studied, because it is kind of the clo like most direct correlation is joint related health and pain. We actually, so we recently launched a senolytic product, right? Senolytic basically being the kinds of compounds that break down and kill off senescent cells. And when we were developing that product, we did a pilot study on it, and with that we were testing joint health and it was.
Actually quite remarkable the, I mean, I expected the results to be good, but not necessarily this good. What we found was after essentially three cycles with the product where people take it, you know, two [00:09:00] days and then take a month off, two days, take a month off. So after three cycles, we saw a 53% decrease in joint related pain and discomfort.
And a 51% decrease in the difficulty people had with doing regular activities. House chores, exercise.
JJ Virgin: It's only taking it two days and then a month off.
James Schmachtenberger: Yeah. So this is, and this is where I think a lot of people that are starting to study senescence haven't maybe dove deep enough into the research cuz what you see, I mean there's not a lot out there.
It's very much like the cutting edge of anti aging medicine right now. You do see a lot of places where people are taking certain senolytic compounds every single day, and though there can be benefits to it. The way that the research actually shows is that there's what's kind of commonly referred to as the hit and run technique that with cellular senescence, you want to provide a very high dose of the things that are needed to be able to kill off senescent cells.
But you do it for a short period of [00:10:00] time and then you give the body a break and then you come back to it. And that actually is much more efficient, both in terms of the amount of cells that get killed off, but also how much energy it takes away from the
JJ Virgin: body. Nice. It's, it's almost like doing a deep detox where you detox, then you replenished, then you detox.
So would combining that with doing some, you know, fasting for autophagy would that be like a one two punch? Would that help?
James Schmachtenberger: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean there, there's a very close correlation here. So like fasting or fast mimicking. Mm-hmm. , I think for a lot of people they kind of err more on the side of fast mimicking just cuz it's a little bit easier
JJ Virgin: if they're really, if they're really doing that correctly.
right? You gotta make sure you're actually following the fasting mimicking protocol. Otherwise you're just, you know, eating a little less and maybe not triggering autophagy. Do you wanna explain really quickly for everybody what a autophagy is and, and how this would be important in this? .
James Schmachtenberger: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so autophagy like, the actual translation of it basically means self eating, right?
[00:11:00] And so it's, it's the body's ability to essentially dissolve or eat away compounds that are building up in cells that are going to speed up the aging process. And, you know, there's a number of things that trigger autophagy and be a, and like the core things from a lifestyle perspective are, Certain aspects of diet, exercise and particularly fasting, right?
And so that's where there's been, you know, those last few years, this kind of huge surge in Why am I forgetting the term? Intermittent fasting. Mm-hmm. , right? Because actually fasting for most people is pretty hard. But being able to do intermittent fasting where you're only kind of fasting for relatively short periods and you're still getting regular food is something that's relatively doable, but that triggers autophagy which slows down the aging process, makes muscles work better, or all kinds of positive things.
Now, there's also a close correlation between senolytics and autophagy like [00:12:00] most of the compounds that we use in our senolytic products have also been studied to increase autophagy. So you're, even though the focus here is on being able to clear out senescent cells, it's not the only thing that's happening, it's actually triggering a number of different mechanisms that are all gonna have
JJ Virgin: positive effect.
Very cool. So you could combine the two and be even more powerful, it sounds like. And what, what is in this senolytic formula? Like what are the things that help do this?
James Schmachtenberger: Yeah, that's a really good question. So there's, we have nine different ingredients that are in the product. The two that are kind of maybe the most known in the research world right now would be called Cetin and Corset 10.
And these have both been studied very extensively for being able to kill off. You know, senescent cells. But you know, we have quite a bit more than that because again, where, where a lot of the very cutting edge research is showing is that. Like I mentioned earlier, there's [00:13:00] senescent cells that build up in all the different kinds of tissues and each different kind of compound tends to target senescent cells in different kinds of tissues.
So where some of the products on the market maybe only have cetin, or only have corsotin or might even have both, that means that you're getting the ability to break downs, senescent and cells in certain tissues, but not necessarily across the entire body, and are
JJ Virgin: already, I would assume, wouldn't you? If you're aging in one area, it's probably not your bias going, you know what, we're just gonna age in your fat cells.
It's the only thing aging like that it Right. That doesn't make any sense. Right. It would be, you know, across the different areas of your bodies from your mitochondria to your brain, to your fat, to your right. Everything. Yeah.
James Schmachtenberger: And, and this is where I think a lot of times kind of the, the product development processes loses, loses sight of the way that the body actually works, right?
We're a very complex, integrated system. If something is going wrong in one area, it's not isolated to that [00:14:00] area, unless maybe you're talking about like an acute trauma, but generally with overall health. If there's something causing challenges in fat cells, for instance, it's certainly not gonna be isolated there.
It's gonna have effects everywhere. And so, you know, the approach of just trying to kill off senescent cells in certain areas still beneficial and it probably would have some like positive cascading effects. But ultimately, if you can be able to address the whole system, you're gonna have far better. And that's really our, at Neurohacker, like that's our core orientation.
We're kind of the thing that we're most known for was pioneering the use of complex system science applied to the human body. And with that, the orientation and the intent is to not look at health in this like really narrow, isolated kind of way, but to actually understand how does the entire system work and what is the interface between all the different systems.
Right. So if you're thinking about brain health for instance, you can't just think about that [00:15:00] in isolation because so many of the neurotransmitters are produced in the gut. So if you don't factor the gut, you're still missing out, right? Like everything has these kinds of deep tie-ins because we are one integrated system.
So our approach has always been do. The, like do all of the research necessary, however much time and energy that takes to really understand the whole system and understand how the body is designed to optimally function. And then be able to create products that support that optimal function and don't just address one or two particular biomarkers.
JJ Virgin: So I know you've been looking at a lot of the research and I wanna get into some more of this. I'm gonna take a short break, so hang with me and we'll be right back.
So I know there's been research being done out in scripts and Mayo, like what, what is the latest research since this is a relatively new field, like what are some of the big things that have been uncovered here that we would be good [00:16:00] for us to know? And are there other things beyond fasting and the specific supplement blend that you've created that can.
Yeah,
James Schmachtenberger: so I mean, this is where, to me, this is a very exciting area because it's so new and so cutting edge, right? Like senescent cells have been understood in the research community for probably close to four decades. But we didn't understand much about them other than they existed and they caused a speed up in aging.
But it's only since 2015 that researchers actually found out anything could be done about it. So we know. But to
JJ Virgin: be clear, there's only an increase in aging if you're not breaking them down. .
James Schmachtenberger: Well, I mean there, like we talked about before, the hallmarks of aging, there's a number of different things that affect aging.
So even if you're addressing senescent cells, there may still be other factors, right, that are relevant,
JJ Virgin: but certainly, but senescent cells would be okay if your body was, cuz you need to have them. [00:17:00] Yeah, you need to get rid of 'em. So it sounds like the issue more is that your body isn't getting rid of them as it should be.
And is this one of the things that happens as we age? Or could there be some genetic markers or some lifestyle things that also do that? All right. Back to you. Back to you James .
James Schmachtenberger: I mean there, there likely are some genetic factors. I haven't seen that directly in research so far. It's more related to general aging and particularly immune health.
Cause senescent cells aren't inherently bad. It's, they're bad when they last for a long period of time. Cuz there's also what's known as transient senescent cells where, like, for instance, if you do a really hard workout, your body will actually produce quite a bit of senescent cells. But then within very short order, they die off and get cleared out.
And it's actually part of the process of, you know, speeding up that subtle die off that's supposed to happen. But the, the problem comes that. Senescent cells can break down a few different ways, but the key thing is that the immune system goes after them and attacks them. But [00:18:00] when the immune system isn't working as well, where you start to get what should be these transient senescent cells, they aren't transient and they just live in your body for a long time.
And that's where it becomes an issue because. Like we talked about, they end up turning the other cells around them into senescent cells. And this is like the speed up and the aging process. So the key thing is you do wanna be able to get rid of 'em. And what the research shows is you don't actually have to get rid of all of them.
You have to get rid of about 70 to 80% and then. Even though these proteins are still being emitted, it's in a small enough amount that the body can totally handle it. And so you don't have to go, you know, crazy with it. You just have to do some of the appropriate things to be able to keep those levels down.
And so, you know, exercise though it creates transient ones is one of the key things lifestyle wise that we'll be able to break them down.
JJ Virgin: And then any specific type of exercise,
James Schmachtenberger: Essentially high intensity. So, I mean, any form, [00:19:00] like hit, for instance, would be a really good approach to being able to address senescent cells.
And then the thing that has the most correlation is fasting and fast mimicking.
JJ Virgin: And is there anything around fasting, like length of time that's optimal? I, I'm sure that this is all so new. It's kind of, that's, that's the big question, right? Cause, I mean that's been everything about intermittent fasting is how long does it take to get into autophagy?
How long do you, but any, anything out yet about, about optimal times or what if there's a length of time that's needed or how often, you know, I mean like with fast mimicking once a month. Type of thing. Yeah, I mean in
James Schmachtenberger: terms of like, there's quite a bit of information on that around different aspects of health as it goes, like specific to senescent cells?
I actually don't know. I haven't seen that in the research that I've read so far. Now, granted, I'm not a hardcore researcher, right? My team is, we've got a whole team of PhDs and doctors that just like dive into this all day. [00:20:00] I tend to kind of study things at a high level. I was
JJ Virgin: like, bless those people.
Just give me the , give me the key points. Exactly what do I need to put into practice here? That's what I'm always looking for. Yeah.
James Schmachtenberger: But then, so yeah, mean there there are these lifestyle factors and those should absolutely be done because they're. You know, inexpensive. They're consistent, they're available to everybody, and you fix
JJ Virgin: a lot of other stuff too, as we know,
James Schmachtenberger: right?
I mean, fast mimicking is extraordinary for all kinds of things, right? It's gonna improve brain function, it's gonna support weight loss, it's gonna do a number of things for cellular health. So, I mean, certainly something that's worth the effort, even though it can be a little unpleasant or uncomfortable at first.
I think, you know, as you probably know, once you do it for a little while, you kind of adjust and it stops me in a big deal. But yeah, so I mean there, there are the core lifestyle factors, which I think everyone should focus on. But then in addition to that, there are things from like a supplementation perspective that can really [00:21:00] kind of ramp up the benefits.
Now, a lot of the research that was done wasn't actually with supplements, at least initially it. Like most of the research out of Mayo Clinic and Scripps was done with a leukemia drug called dasatinib, and some of it was dasatinib paired with quercetin which is one of the ingredients we're using. And with that, you know, you did see these huge dropoffs in senescent cells, but satinnib is not a particularly safe compound.
And so though it can have certain benefits, it also causes a lot of other challenges. And so that's where the research then started to advance. Say, well, what other compounds can be able to have the same kind of effect, but without the associated
JJ Virgin: downsides? Well, did they compare the drug, the drug plus quercetin and just quercetin all.
they
James Schmachtenberger: did. And so the, the Drug plus quercetin is where you saw the biggest benefit. [00:22:00] And it makes sense because again, what we have seen from the research is different kind, like different kinds of tissues having different. Having senescent cells and each compound kind of affecting them differently. So the combination is generally where you're gonna see the best
JJ Virgin: benefit.
And then the question would be, what was in that drug? What was that drugs mechanism of action? Could we mimic it with a supplement that wouldn't hurt you? Right?
James Schmachtenberger: Yeah, exactly. And what we have seen is that particularly Cetin seems to operate in a very similar fashion, seems to hit on a lot of the same mechanisms and have a lot of the same benefit.
But fisetin is basically. Plant extracts, right? Like it, it shows up commonly in things like strawberries, onion, peels. Like there, there's things that we eat on a daily basis that have fisetin just maybe not in high enough amount to be able to be effective for what we're talking about, or at least not as effective.
So you know, that's where you can be able to essentially extract it. Have high [00:23:00] doses that can have. Really big impact
JJ Virgin: here. You, it makes you wonder with some of these blue zone places, if you know, like, and I, and I just say this cuz just being in Peru where they had 192 micro climates and all this, you know, food biodiversity and all different polyphenols.
You wonder if some of these blue zones, one of the things that's happening is they've got, you know, Foods that are rich in these things that are contributing to the being in a senolytic. Is that, is that a crazy leap to make? I don't think it
James Schmachtenberger: is. I mean, I think that, You know, a lot of our food naturally had much more, not just polyphenols, but all kinds of nutrients, right?
Yeah. It was way more vitamin content. Way more mineral content. The problem, like one of the key problems that we live with today and why I think supplementation option becomes important is that we've done so much damage to [00:24:00] top soil the way that we do, kind of mass scale agriculture. And so even if you're eating.
Totally organic. You're getting a small fraction of the nutrients that you would've gotten with that exact same plant a hundred years ago. And then not only do you have top soil depletion then you have the fact that a lot of you know, produce has been hybridized like crazy. Mm-hmm.
JJ Virgin: transported. Right. You know, a lot of it's, and then remotely
James Schmachtenberger: fresh, right?
It all the way across the world before it gets to your door.
JJ Virgin: I know it's like local, seasonal, organic, everybody local, seasonal, organic. But the other piece of it, like we shouldn't be having cherries in February unless they were frozen in July, but you look at that and then you combine it with cuz and, and again, it was just fascinating to be at Machu Picchu and see those gardening terraces and go, oh, , you know, oh, what a big difference this is.
But then to look at that and go, okay, we have the, the issues with soil. We have the runoff of all of these chemicals that are getting into [00:25:00] the organics, but then we have just a. You know, a toxic world and a stressful world increasing our nutrient demands not reducing them. So we have higher nutrient demands and less nutrients from our foods.
So I don't, I don't personally see how you can be healthy without supplements. I've been even just looking at basic, you know, nutrient deficiency testing. You just never see someone without supplementation who's even like, got the basics and the basics. And if anyone's seeing the basics are the recommended daily intake or allowance or whatever the heck it is now that is like, no, that is so you don't die.
Right. ?
James Schmachtenberger: Yeah. I mean the FDA recommended amounts of like most of the common vitamins and minerals are actually insanely low. And like you said, they're, they're basically so that you're, Suffering and dying, but they're not oriented around optimal health.
JJ Virgin: It was the don't get scurvy. I was like, okay. Wow.
All right.
James Schmachtenberger: What else? Go a big picture around health. Like one of the things that I don't think people think [00:26:00] about enough is, you know, human physiology does evolve and adapt, but it takes tens of thousands of years for that to happen. And in the last like 200 years since the Industrial Revolution, our entire world has.
And so our physiology hasn't been able to catch up to the world that we live in. So you know, we're exposed to so many more toxins and stressors and time pressure and all kinds of things that we're not actually naturally designed
JJ Virgin: for. Right? Well look at the last 30 years, I mean, just look at what's happened from computers and phones.
You know, pop Tarts, ,
James Schmachtenberger: right? We're getting insane amounts of sugar, fats, all things that, like you're supposed to have some of in your diet, but
JJ Virgin: you know, you are not, you do not need to have sugar in your diet. not, not refined sugar for sure. And you don't even have to have, you don't even have to have sugar from your, from fruit in your diet.
You can live without it just, you know, it just won't be as much fun. But so, okay. What else came out of those? [00:27:00] Any, any other big hallmark stuff from, from what's been being researched out there?
James Schmachtenberger: Yeah, I mean, so one of the other areas that we dove really deeply into is mitochondrial function, right? It's one of the other main kind of hallmarks of aging.
So, you know, for those who aren't familiar with mitochondrial, are a little part of cells that are known as the powerhouse. They, they're what produced most of the energy in cells. And again, with aging mitochondria start to break down. You get less of them, you get less functionality out of the ones that are there.
And there's a bunch of different things that affect mitochondria, right? Terms that people probably heard. Like bdnf, atp, nad right? So our, we, we developed a, another product called Quality of Life, which focuses on mitochondrial health. And with that, we are kind of like, we do, we took a complex approach for hitting up all of the major pathways, but there's a, a real kind of focus and emphasis there on NAD.
And [00:28:00] n a d if people aren't familiar, it's, it's basically a part of vitamin b3, but that molecule is the primary energy source for mitochondria and for cells. So if you have more n a D, your cells are able to continually produce more energy, which essentially means everything is gonna work better. And as we age, NAD levels start to drop off pretty drasticallthere on NAD.He people hit about 30. Their in NAD levels start to go down, but like sometimes as much as half. And then that kind of progresses as time goes on. And so being able to boost NAD levels is a key part of the anti-aging process as well. But NAD by itself is a really unstable molecule, so you can't actually just take it, it'll break down in the stomach acid.
So what you need to do there is take certain things. Called precursors where they're gonna then cause your body to naturally produce more of it. And so like with that product, we are using a few different precursors [00:29:00] to be able to help the body produce more. But then we did another thing there that's really, I haven't seen anybody else do this, but I think it's particularly interesting.
We also use compounds to kind of close the salvage pathway. So that when your body is producing more n a D, you're actually able to get utilization of all of it. And we actually, we did a another,
hold
JJ Virgin: on. You said a thing. You said a thing that bears discussion. You said closed a salvage pathway. Right.
James Schmachtenberger: So with with many things in the body, your body will produce whatever the compound is and it'll make utilization of some of it.
But some large portion ends up getting exhausted out. Right? And so like a lot of times people talk about with supplements, if you take the wrong form, you get a whole bunch of the thing, but ultimately you just pee most of it. Right. Cause the body can't have utilization. And so like this is where the salvage pathway comes in is with NAD you can produce quite a bit, but N Ad is something that sort of recycles it.
You, you [00:30:00] use NAD it turns into either Nico Amide Riboside or Nico Mono Nucleotide, which then converts back into N Ad. And it's kind of a cycle. But oftentimes that cycle becomes inefficient. So even as you get more N A D, your body ends up expelling some of it and you don't actually get the full use.
So that was one of the key things that we were looking at in the research was how do we increase that utilization? How do we make sure that people get as much of the NAD as they possibly can? Cause just increasing it without that, we'll have you just lose, but nowhere near as much. Got it.
JJ Virgin: So you're figuring out how to close the door to.
James Schmachtenberger: Right. And again, there we did, we did another pilot study. We do a lot of studies our orientation, but with, with that particular one we were doing before and after blood labs looking at how much NAD people had in their blood and their plasma, and then what the effects were over 30 days on this particular product.
It was [00:31:00] awesome. We ended up seeing full hundred percent increase in, NAD levels and 40 and 60% increase in NR and NMM which are the two like metabolites associated.
JJ Virgin: This is a big thing cause I know most people, you know, a lot of the docs are doing IVs. I was like, it's four hours. I'm not doing that, you know, or injections.
I, I wonder if you could do. Urine plus a blood test so that you'd see kind of that sweet spot of how much you need versus at the point you start excreting more. Or maybe that's just like, Because wouldn't you see secretion?
James Schmachtenberger: Yeah, you probably could do a corollary study like that and look at, you know, as the numbers elevate in the blood, how much secretion is there?
It's, I don't know if that's actually even doable yet. Like when we did our study, we actually had to work with the, the research organization to kind of help refine how to test levels because this is also pretty new [00:32:00] area. So, you know, it's not like just going and getting a simple blood test for checking vitamin levels, which is something that's been, you know, done for a long time and we know exactly how to do it.
The ability to even effectively test in ad levels has only existed for a couple years. And so I, and I haven't seen anything yet. In terms of being able to actually test how much is being excreted in the urine. I imagine that that will be something that will start to, as
JJ Virgin: I say, the supplement companies don't want that to come out cause And so someone taking this then because again, you talked about with your other, Study being able to see this marked increase in reduction in joint pain.
Like, and that's massive, like 50%, you know, I'm listening to that, going a 50% reduction in joint pain. You know, any pharmaceutical company would jump all over. Right? So, you know, the ultimate thing with any of this is what does a person notice from it? And I would imagine here that it would be so, In [00:33:00] the energy daily energy, would they be noticing?
James Schmachtenberger: Yeah. So like when, when you get your mitochondria working better, and particularly like if you get your NAD levels up there, I mean there's a kind of, everything starts to benefit. But the key things that people tend to notice is more total energy. Usually a pretty meaningful improvement in recovery. So like when you do a hard exercise, how quickly you bounce back from it?
Or if you do get an injury, how quickly does that heal? And then pretty noticeable changes in brain function. You know, as you have more energy and as cells are being able to continually drive more energy, you start to have a lot more clarity of thinking, more presence faster, processing speed, all these kinds of things.
So those are like the core areas that people notice. And amazingly, they noticed them pretty quickly like. With that, with a number of our products, we designed them to be something that people can feel right away. Right? Like particularly our cognitive products are designed to be able to be felt first day you take them.
When we were doing the N A D [00:34:00] research, it we, we weren't even doing it with the idea that it was something that people would notice right away. This was more like a long-term health approach. Mm-hmm. . So I was actually kind of surprised and obviously delighted to see. Almost everyone within about two weeks started noticing more energy, better recovery time, better cognitive function, and like that was consistent feedback we got across almost all
JJ Virgin: customers.
Well, I, I've been really looking at I'm, I'm working on my next book, my next last book, famous , and so I'm really looking. Aging and muscle. And, and it's funny, I feel like I'm coming back to where I started cuz when I first started and I was starting in weight loss and everyone was telling you you had to do cardio.
And I'm like, I think you need to lift weights, man, that's gonna make the bigger difference. You know, , we gotta focus on muscle and now in fact we gotta focus on muscle. But you know, and. and I've been listening to a lot of Dr. Peter Atia's podcast where he is like, you gotta lay down the muscle in your twenties and thirties and forties so that you in your [00:35:00] fifties.
And, but a lot of that would be, cause I, one of the first things I started to notice in my fifties that I was able to turn around with some hormone replacement was like, I could not recover like I used to. And I'm like, what is that? Right? So just the ability to be able to recover is huge. Huge, which you might not think about if you're listening to this in your thirties.
You're like, I don't know what you're talking about and trust me, you will later. Right? or not if you're using this. Right?
James Schmachtenberger: I remember some of the things I said when I was in like my late teens and twenties about how I would never have those symptoms of aging, and I was like, oh, blah, blah, blah. That's just.
That works. .
JJ Virgin: Yeah. And, and, and that, I think that's one of the challenges that's makes this so exciting is for a lot of this stuff when you're listening to these podcasts, it's like, well, you know, you better do this in your twenties, thirties, forties, because otherwise you're gonna be screwed in your sixties and seventies.
I'm like, well, what about the sixties and seventies? People listen to this. Like, that's not very comforting. Like, you know, I mean, [00:36:00] And the answer is, it's always great to start at any age, but if there are those things that can help you, you know, recover faster, do more, have more energy, holy smokes, that is huge.
James Schmachtenberger: Yeah, I mean, obviously the, the sooner you start these things, the better, right? Because you're, you're having better health all throughout the process, but, Drastically slowing down the aging process. And so like that's gonna have phenomenal effects, but it is never too late to start, right? Like even if somebody's in there 60 to seventies or later, It's just when you really start to study the body, it's incredible how resilient it is, especially when it's given what it needs.
Mm-hmm. And so even if somebody is already a bit older and they're having a lot of the effects of aging, the, you know, pain, the et cetera when you do things like address senescent cells, when you work on improving mitochondrial function and when you do all these things, You can see a pretty significant turnaround because as the body's getting like [00:37:00] the base nutrients that it really needs and it's getting the support for a lot of these core functions, its own healing capacity is extraordinary.
And I've seen, you know, pretty drastic turnarounds in a lot of the symptoms of aging and people that are quite a bit older and. You know, if you are focused on this and you're paying attention, you can start a lot of these things in your twenties. It's ideal. Like even for me, I was, it was maybe a year or so ago, there was a bunch of like anti-aging things I was wanting to do and I'm like, God, they're so expensive.
Should I actually spend
JJ Virgin: that money ? It's,
James Schmachtenberger: that is the silliest thing for me to think. You know, I'm fortunate that I can afford a lot of the things, and if I do them now, I can not have a lot of the damage to occur versus waiting till it occurs and then trying to reverse it, which is always harder, still largely doable,
JJ Virgin: much harder, doable, lot more expensive, lot more painful, and it takes away [00:38:00] from quality of life.
And I think that is the real key when you look at everything with longevity. Now it's not, you know, I remember reading. Maybe 30, 40 years ago, everything was about like increasing lifespan and then there was like the light bulb moment of like, oh, wait a minute, , you know, increasing lifespan and having crappy last 10, 20 years is not what anyone's talking about here.
So the fact that you have things that can make you, cause that's, that's what I've been really looking at is I have a mom, I wish my mom was my biological mom. She is my adopted mom and she's like 93 and, you know, lives in a two story house on her own golf . She's just like kicking it right? And totally there cognitively does her own shopping In factor.
During Covid, I was like, , you cannot go to the store. I will either have stuff delivered or I'll have someone go get it. Oh, honey. You know, , you know, she was so frustrated with me and I'm like, I am sorry, but you know, forget it, you're not doing it. Lives on a [00:39:00] big hill. So she walks around the neighborhood on the hill.
So it just you know, it, it is absolutely something that you just, I think you reverse engineer going, if I wanna be that way at 90, what am I needing to do in my forties, fifties, sixties? Because you don't wake up at 80 and go uhoh, here's what I need to do. Like, start. Right, right. And it sounds like you start now and you're gonna be reaping benefits right away anyway.
So who doesn't want more energy? Oh yeah. And to recover faster, not have pain. Right.
James Schmachtenberger: I mean, I've noticed like I'm, you know, when I started doing the senescent product, for instance, within a few weeks I started noticing a change in recovery time. Because, you know, I, I like to do relatively extreme sports kind of things.
Like I'm way too addicted to paintball, for instance, and
JJ Virgin: and that. That's hilarious. Painful sport. Yeah.
James Schmachtenberger: And jumping and your knees are feeling it, but if you do get shot and there's bruising, like mm-hmm. and. I definitely noticed a [00:40:00] very clear change in how quickly those things were repairing, so like
sometimes
JJ Virgin: That's very exciting.
Yeah. I've been lifting really heavy weights and I'm like, this game on, I think you guys sent me some stuff and it's in my, my, my pantry is just literally a supplement pantry. I'll be honest. It's like, I'm sure you can relate. Oh yeah. Going okay. It was, I was waiting to talk to you to find out what to do with everything.
So I'm like running down after this to try it and I'll, I'll report back in cuz I'm a great Guinea pig cause I do one thing at a time and really monitor it and see what's going on. So I, well,
James Schmachtenberger: let me know what you have there, cuz with like with the senolytic you'll get some benefits right off the bat, but like what our, like where we did our research was three cycles.
Mm-hmm. , and you know, and I definitely noticed, like for myself, as I've done it longer, the benefits are accumulative. So if you don't have enough for at least three cycles, I'll,
JJ Virgin: I will shout at you on all of this stuff. So I think the big takeaways for everybody, and, and honestly, here's the thing, James, the more you dig into the research, I haven't once [00:41:00] heard, oh, you know what?
That exercise that's gonna hurt you, , you know, it's like every single thing you look at, you go, man. So I always like to start with exercise and diet because I think it's ridiculous to, you know, sit on the couch. And and eat a crappy inflammatory diet and think that things are gonna save you. They're not.
But when you put the exercise in with the right eating, which if you're listening to this podcast, you know what those are, and then you put this on top, holy smokes. It's not one plus one plus one equals three here. Like it's massively exponential. So I'm really excited about this. I know you have something special for our listeners too, so I'm gonna put that.
I'm trying to think of what the easiest spelling is gonna be. I think I'll do jjvirgin.com/neurohacker, n e u r o H A C K E R. Neuro hacker and they are gonna get a discount coupon correct. To try these [00:42:00] amazing things? Absolutely,
James Schmachtenberger: yes. We've put together a coupon code. It's JJ podcast, so pretty easy to remember.
And if anyone uses that coupon code, it'll give them 15% off on any of the products. But you know, today was the focus is on anti-aging with senolytic and quality of life.
JJ Virgin: Cool. So here's my throw down to you listening, and again, we'll put all of that at jjvirgin.com/neurohacker plus, you know, just recommendations on the exercise piece of it.
I am gonna be recording some new exercise, a new exercise program. I've been like putting it off, but I'm gonna do it. And so you heard here I announced it and putting that together with some of our intermittent fasting protocols that we have in our programs with these. I would love to hear what happens with you.
So I'd love to hear that on my Instagram at jj.virgin. And James, thank you so much for doing all the research for us or having your team do it. . Yeah. And the credit really goes to the table . [00:43:00] So I love doing podcasts cuz I can bring smart people on who can give me what's the latest and greatest and then I can just put it into what are we gonna do with all this information.
So you were absolutely delight and I appreciate everything that you guys are doing over there at Neuro Hacker. Thank
James Schmachtenberger: you. Yeah, thank you for having me. This was, this was great. I'm glad we got a chance to have this talk today and get to hopefully share some useful information about slowing the aging
process.
JJ Virgin: It's useful information if you guys do it. So again, jjvirgin.com/neurohacker and I will see you next time.
All right. Just a quick reminder, you can grab your discount code for those awesome products, and remember those awesome products. Get combined with exercise. And the right nutrition, right? Like this is how we do, we lay the great foundation with the right lifestyle diet, and then we add in the things that will make it pop.
And [00:44:00] so here you go, jjvirgin.com/neurohacker, that's where you'll get the discount code. And again, reminder, if you have not yet subscribed to the podcast, pop on over to subscribetojj.com, sign on up. Make sure you never miss an episode, and I will see you.